Spiked Shield = win (I think)

[Reaper Steve]

The spiked shield is an offhand weapon and a light shield that grants +1 AC and Reflex.

Two-Weapon Defense gives a +1 AC and reflex when having a melee weapon in each hand.

So, using TWD with a Spiked Shield yields +2 to both, which equals a heavy shield.

The question is: at what cost?
Is the answer is '3 feats: weapon prof: spiked shield and TWD (and TWF to qual for TWD)?' Rationale: even though a character my be proficient in light shields, one may think they cannot claim the advantage of TWD unless they are proficient in the spiked shield as a weapon.
HOWEVER, proficiency is not required to wield a weapon. So I can see the case of the answer being '2 feats: TWD (and TWF).' Even though the character isn't proficient in the spiked shield, he is holding two melee weapons and meets the RAW to claim TWD. Also, the spiked shield does NOT have the 'defensive' property, which specifies the need to be proficient.
I don't think the latter is a big deal, as that's the same bonus as lugging a heavy shield, but requires more feats.

But where it gets fun is using the Tempest Fighter build previewed.
A tempest fighter gets TWD for free, without TWF.
So, he could get +2 AC and Ref just by carrying a spiked shield.
Naturally, he would want to spend a feat to be proficient in it since this build is supposed to make offhand attacks.
The other class features would then give a +1 to hit and (if wearing chainmail or lighter) a +2 to damage with the spiked shield.

That seems like a lot of fun!
But is it more fun than having a brutal kukri or a high crit katar for that same feat slot? Or for no feats, a short sword with a higher prof bonus?

Ahhh... all the wonderful choices!

 

[Gloombunny]

Two-Weapon Defense is a shield bonus. Doesn't stack with the spiked shield. It does stack with the "defensive" property, though. So a tempest fighter gets a better AC from a parrying dagger or a double sword than from a spiked shield. Which is kinda dumb.

 

[Baumi]

If you get the Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Shield, do you automatically know how to use the Shield part and therefore overcome the Prerequisites to light Shield proficiency?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Two-Weapon Defense is a shield bonus. Doesn't stack with the spiked shield. It does stack with the "defensive" property, though. So a tempest fighter gets a better AC from a parrying dagger or a double sword than from a spiked shield. Which is kinda dumb.

The spiked shield is actually a little better defensively. The Defensive property doesn't give a bonus to Reflex. Also, don't forget the Shield Specialisation feat.

i.e.

parrying dagger (+1 AC) + TWF feat + TWD feat (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) = +2 AC/+1 Reflex
damage: d4 (d6 for Rogues)

spiked shield (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) + Shield Specialisation feat (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) = +2 AC/+2 Refex
damage: d6

At the Heroic tier, the parrying dagger can grant a +1 to AC over the spiked shield, but at the cost of two feats and lower damage (unless the character is a Rogue).

At the Paragon tier, taking the Shield Specialisation feat gives the character a +1 to Reflex over the dagger wielder, who had to spend an extra feat and still does less damage (unless he's a Rogue).

 

[cmbarona]

If you get the Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Shield, do you automatically know how to use the Shield part and therefore overcome the Prerequisites to light Shield proficiency?

I would say no: you can use it as an off-hand weapon normally, but until you learned how to use that big spikey disc as a shield, you wouldn't benefit from it as one.

 

[Sphyre]

parrying dagger (+1 AC) + TWF feat + TWD feat (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) = +2 AC/+1 Reflex
damage: d4 (d6 for Rogues)

Rogue weapon talent for daggers (and parrying dagger) is +1 to hit, not +1 die size.

 

[Gloombunny]

The spiked shield is actually a little better defensively. The Defensive property doesn't give a bonus to Reflex. Also, don't forget the Shield Specialisation feat.

i.e.

parrying dagger (+1 AC) + TWF feat + TWD feat (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) = +2 AC/+1 Reflex
damage: d4 (d6 for Rogues)

spiked shield (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) + Shield Specialisation feat (+1 AC/+1 Reflex) = +2 AC/+2 Refex
damage: d6

At the Heroic tier, the parrying dagger can grant a +1 to AC over the spiked shield, but at the cost of two feats and lower damage (unless the character is a Rogue).

At the Paragon tier, taking the Shield Specialisation feat gives the character a +1 to Reflex over the dagger wielder, who had to spend an extra feat and still does less damage (unless he's a Rogue).

Hm... normally I'd counter that shield specialization doesn't stack with armor specialization and so being able to take it isn't as much of an advantage as it seems, but since tempest fighters are unlikely to be wearing scale they need 15 Con to get armor specialization, which might be a bit more than a tempest fighter really wants. And from an optimization standpoint the +1 Reflex from shield spec is better than removing the skill check penalty, even though personally I'd generally prefer the better checks.

edit: What am I thinking? Chain specialization takes Dex, not Con, just like scale spec. Though the point about Reflex still stands.

I'm mainly annoyed about the double weapons; I just mentioned the parrying dagger for completeness's sake. It seems like double sword is really just the best option for a tempest fighter, and that bugs me.

 

[Psybuster]

I think it's worth noting that a spiked shield allows a Tempest Fighter to use Tide of Iron.

 

[Gloombunny]

I think it's worth noting that a spiked shield allows a Tempest Fighter to use Tide of Iron.

I noted that back when AV first came out, in a different thread, you johnny-come-lately.

Nah but seriously, while Tide of Iron is awesome, keep in mind that tempest fighters get a one-target-only version of Twin Strike that they'll probably want to take, but since it's one target only, Cleave is still very attractive as a second choice. And if I recall correctly, the tempest fighter preview also mentioned another new at-will that it didn't give any details on, and that one might be really sweet too. So it seems to me that a non-human tempest fighter, and maybe a human one too, may not even want Tide of Iron. Though that other at-will would have to be pretty damn awesome to beat out Tide of Iron for the human fighters.

 

[inati]

Or you could go with a shield fighter with tide of iron, and then multi into Ranger for some juicy exploits.