Spirit's Shield

[MDragonG]

Not sure if this has been discussed of not.

Spirit's shield stats:
an enemy leaves a square adjacent to your companion without shifting.

What types of movement does this include? (regular move, teleport, forced movement.)
This has been a discussion in my current group. The main reason I bring this up is that it states ...enemy leaves a square...

Thanks.

 

[DracoSuave]

Regular move, yes.

Shifting, obviously not, as it is described there.

Teleportation does not, because teleportation expressly forbids opportunity -actions- for leaving a square, which this certainly qualifies for. Forced movement does not, as it expressly forbids triggering opportunity actions.

So, really, any movement that does not expressly forbid opportunity -actions- will trigger this, except for shifting. So, if you have an attack that says 'move 2 squares and do not trigger an opportunity attack from your target' it will trigger Spirit's Shield because Spirit's Shield is not an opportunity attack, but the more general 'action.'

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm not so sure I agree. WotC CS has long since taken to using this turn of phrase "leaving a square" to indicate ANY means by which a square is vacated. Obviously shifting is expressly excluded, but forced movement, teleport, etc are not considered to be excluded by this wording. The wording would be "moves out of a square" if it was intended to exclude forced moves and teleports.

Of course movement and move are now such befuddled terms that its difficult to know what is meant by them, though leaves so far has been used consistently AFAIK. Unfortunately leaves has never been defined in any of the rule books, only in CS responses.

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually, DS and AA are both not completely correct.

Forced movement does not provide an opportunity action. So, forced movement does not do it.

Teleport does not provide an opportunity attack. However, Spirit Shield is not an opportunity attack, it is an opportunity action.

So, Teleport does trigger Spirit Shield. The opponent is leaving the square and is not shifting. That is the only requirement for Spirit Shield.

Any movement that does not expressly prohibit an opportunity action (like forced movement) will result in the opportunity action occurring.

 

[DracoSuave]

Teleport does not provide an opportunity attack. However, Spirit Shield is not an opportunity attack, it is an opportunity action.

So, Teleport does trigger Spirit Shield. The opponent is leaving the square and is not shifting. That is the only requirement for Spirit Shield.

My PHB2 disagrees with you. Teleportation specificly mentions opportunity action + leaving a square.

 

[CapnZapp]

My reaction is: is really "leaving a square" defined by the rules? Wouldn't there be a more rules-solid way of expressing this*?

*) Obviously, after first ironing out any remaining issues...

 

[DracoSuave]

My reaction is: is really "leaving a square" defined by the rules? Wouldn't there be a more rules-solid way of expressing this*?

As in, is there a text block explaining exactly what it means?

No.

It just means exactly what it says it is. It's when you leave a square. Cease to be in it. It's not exactly something that -needs- rules-text to define.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sorry, but based on your own answer, I beg to differ.

Anything requiring such an involved answer does need a better rules definition.

If it really was any time you leave a square with no exceptions then I could agree. As it it now, it is unreasonable to expect the average game to find those exeptions by himself. There needs to be a box in the rules laying out the axact and complete circumstances for when you leave your square without leaving your square, as it were...

Also, what Abdul said.

 

[DracoSuave]

If it really was any time you leave a square with no exceptions then I could agree. As it it now, it is unreasonable to expect the average game to find those exeptions by himself. There needs to be a box in the rules laying out the axact and complete circumstances for when you leave your square without leaving your square, as it were...

That's not reasonable or even possible.

Sometimes you have traps triggered by leaving a square. Nothing to do with OActions at all. You leave a square when you leave a square. That's just it. The reason some abilities don't work aren't because 'you're leaving without leaving.' They don't work because the method of leaving the square explicitly tells you.

So you -are- being told.

The Spirit's Shield then tells you that it only works when they leave a square, and are not shifting. And it being an opportunity action, it should be obvious that stuff that says 'no opportunity actions for leaving a square' would -obviously- apply. Not because you're 'leaving without leaving' which isn't the case at all. It's because your method of leaving tells you to ignore that stuff directly.

You -cannot- get more explicit than that.

I'm not so sure I agree. WotC CS has long since taken to using this turn of phrase "leaving a square" to indicate ANY means by which a square is vacated. Obviously shifting is expressly excluded, but forced movement, teleport, etc are not considered to be excluded by this wording. The wording would be "moves out of a square" if it was intended to exclude forced moves and teleports.

The power doesn't -have- to exclude Forced Movement and Teleports. Forced Movement and Teleports exclude -themselves- by the 'No Opportunity Actions for Leaving a Square' deal that's -in their respective rules.-

As well, there are powers that have movement that restrict opportunity actions from one target but not all targets. You -can't- mention every possibility in every power. That's rediculous, as not every possibility -exists- yet.

 

[chitzk0i]

The power doesn't -have- to exclude Forced Movement and Teleports. Forced Movement and Teleports exclude -themselves- by the 'No Opportunity Actions for Leaving a Square' deal that's -in their respective rules.-.

You've confused the difference between Opportunity Attack and Opportunity Action. Under Opportunity Action (PH268), you will notice that "The one type of opportunity action that every combatant can take is the opportunity attack." The text of teleport states that you cannot make an opportunity attack. It does not prevent opportunity actions of every kind.

Spirit's Shield is an opportunity action that is not an opportunity attack and so it is not affected by the opportunity attack rules. It triggers exactly when it says, i.e. "An enemy leaves a square adjacent to your spirit companion without shifting". Since there is no precise rules definition for "leaves a square", we must interpret it according to common English and determine the various movement modes that apply.

Granted, it seems pretty powerful to allow it to trigger on forced movement, but by the rules it does.