D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

[Minigiant]

I approve.

Use Sneak attack + extra attack + Expertise in very specific skills (stealth, forgery kit, poisoner's kit, disguise, final). Some kind of half-fighter/half-rogue, like the paladin is a half-fighter/half-cleric.

Remove the Infiltration stuff from the archetype as it is something better left to roleplay. Or use them as ribbons.

I agree with the limited Expertise (stealth, sleight of hand, forgery kit, poisoner's kit, disguise kit,)
I was thinking less Extra Attack and freeing up bonus actions for dual wielding, steady aims, or cantrips.

I didn't even realize Assassin wasn't still its own class in 5e. It certainly should be, and is also the class that can fill the role of part-Fighter part-Thief/Rogue for those as want such.

I would think the Assassin could fit the Fighter/Rogue class some hoped for.

 

[Minigiant]

This is pretty much my take on it as well. There is a place for the assassin outside of the rogue chassis but probably not in current 5e.

If I was going to add another rogue tier class I would do:
Rogue - Thief, Arcane Trickster, Inquisitive, Mastermind, Phantom
Skirmisher* - Assassin, Hunter, Beastmaster, Swashbuckler, Scout, Soul Knife
Warden** - Ranger subclasses minus Hunter and use the Tasha elemental beastmaster

*I'm sure there is a better name but I'm spacing on it right now. This class would be a mix of 5e rogue and spell-less ranger.
**Pretty much ranger but let it lean into its magical side instead of the tacked on feeling of the current ranger.

Scoundrel

The problem is there is no story for the Skrimisher/Scoundrel. There is a story and narrative hook for an Assassin. And many assassins of media were sneaky light strikers.

If there was room and a place for the Bard....

 

[dave2008]

No (other).
I would prefer only four classes: Warrior, Mage, Priest, and Sneak. Everything else (including Assassin and Monk) should be subclasses of those four.

I flip flop between 4 or narrowing it down to two or three. Obviously that would require a complete rewrite of the classes / class structure so I haven't put in the effort. But I would really like to see a 5.5 / 6e that took this approach.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Whatever one does with Assassin, the Rogue subclass in 5E is absolute junk. It's not even good at assassinating people!

 

[Minigiant]

Whatever one does with Assassin, the Rogue subclass in 5E is absolute junk. It's not even good at assassinating people!

That's another reason why I made the topic.

I DMed 2 Assassins and played with onein my party. And boy doees the class and subclass barely support assassins without extraordinary DM help.

And while my homebrew assassin subclass does fix some. It would be easier to start from a whole new class.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I voted Yes, Other.

There are a number of subclasses which in many ways are generic enough that you could use them (with some tweaks) in other classes. Assassin is one example, but other is we made a College of Shadows for Bards, instead of just the Sorcerer Shadow Magic subclass. The two are nearly identical, but it works so well with Bards!

Assassins could easily be a Fighter subclass, for example, with those tweaks. And we like the idea of subclasses that are universal enough to fit under more than one class, so we continue to develop them along those lines.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

While the current subclass has its issues, at its heart, the assassin to me is a character who can infiltrate close to their target, often with stealth, social skills or both, excels at killing an unsuspecting target, and is good at escaping uncaught.
All that is already covered well, and is in the style of the Rogue's wheelhouse.

Now, any class can kill people for money. Whether that is the fighter method (hacking their way through the target's guards and then killing their way out, or the wizard method (of which there can be many options, both flashy and subtle).

But the assassin as a class does this almost as a profession, and thus would excel at avoiding fights and other unnecessary risks. It strikes me that if you wanted to make a specific assassin class, you would have to reinvent a lot of the Rogue to put into it.

 

[CleverNickName]

No (other).
I would prefer only four classes: Warrior, Mage, Priest, and Sneak. Everything else (including Assassin and Monk) should be subclasses of those four.

I flip flop between 4 or narrowing it down to two or three. Obviously that would require a complete rewrite of the classes / class structure so I haven't put in the effort. But I would really like to see a 5.5 / 6e that took this approach.

Okay, ya'll hear me out.

If "Warrior" is shorthand for 'martial focus'...
and "Mage" is shorthand for 'full caster'...
and "Priest" is shorthand for 'half-caster'...
and "Sneak" is shorthand for 'skill focus'...

You could build some excellent combinations. A Warrior with the Druid subclass would play more like a ranger or barbarian, a Priest with the Druid subclass would play a lot like a shaper-druid, and a Mage with the Druid subclass would play more like an elementalist, for example.

Sure, a Sneak with the Assassin subclass would be the stereotype, but what if!

 

[DeviousQuail]

Scoundrel

The problem is there is no story for the Skrimisher/Scoundrel. There is a story and narrative hook for an Assassin. And many assassins of media were sneaky light strikers.

If there was room and a place for the Bard....

I like Scoundrel but honestly I'd probably just call it Hunter and have the subclasses differentiate the method. Either way it leaves Assassin not in the driver's seat like you want. Would a 5 or 10 level prestige class work? I liked the idea of prestige classes in 5e but WotC clearly decided they weren't popular enough to expand on.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I voted Yes, Other.

There are a number of subclasses which in many ways are generic enough that you could use them (with some tweaks) in other classes. Assassin is one example, but other is we made a College of Shadows for Bards, instead of just the Sorcerer Shadow Magic subclass. The two are nearly identical, but it works so well with Bards!

Assassins could easily be a Fighter subclass, for example, with those tweaks. And we like the idea of subclasses that are universal enough to fit under more than one class, so we continue to develop them along those lines.

I just noticed that a Battlemaster fighter with Ambush, Precision and Menacing strike could go a long way to make an assassin.
Just take the Poisoner feat at 6th, Skulker that 14th and maybe Prodigy or Skill expert or Alert somewhere to have expertise in Stealth. Create a background with the feature of either charlatan or faceless.