WotBS [Spoilers included] Half WotBS diary, half GM asking questions

[Mrpereira]

In my campaign they had a bit of the same refugee feeling to the long road to Seaquen. They did NOT really want Haddin along, but like them he was a refugee and since they were heading the same direction they might as well travel together; strength in numbers etc. There was no love lost and they split up the moment they arrived in Seaquen, but until that point they were all refugees.

 

[thom_likes_gaming]

Alright, with the next session looming at the horizont for Monday, I've been reading and rereading the module, and there's one concern sticking out: Vuhl and Detect Magic.

As it's mentioned that one of the seela could report to the heroes that Vuhl showed up "positive" on their Detect Magic (which I WON'T tell the party), I will assume that any casting of that spell by the group will also result in Vuhl showing as magic. And the party's wizard and casts Detect Magic once in 5 minutes, and if he doesn't, the cleric will.

Now, once Vuhl shows as magic to them, the jig is up. They'll focus on getting to the bottom of that.
The way I see it: They'll keep accusing Vuhl of some unclean shenannigans, testing and probing, until even the most dense seela rebel and Papuvin will chime in and Vuhl freaks out and runs away into the forest cursing their bones. At this would leave the party only as partial "saviours" to the seela, and not mess too terribly with the set-up and plot.

Any better ideas or other input?

 

[RangerWickett]

Option A, how can you tell what's magical? He has adopted a physical form and is stuck in it because of the Song of Forms. Hell, everything should have a tinge of magic on it in this forest.

Alternately, nondetection. He's named Deception, so he should be immune to most obvious ways to pierce through his lies.

In 3rd edition, spellcasters only got, like, 4 cantrips per day. They weren't unlimited, so I didn't assume PCs would automatically know what's magical. If your party uses something like detect thoughts, though, I'd give that a chance to work. Just not a cantrip.

 

[Mrpereira]

I simply decided, along the same line of reasoning as RangerWickett, that his name is Deception, something like detect magic simply won't work. He is protected somehow, and since you don't have to explain how to the players, he just simply is. If for no other reason than just look at his bluff skill, he has +53 in 3.5 before rolling the dice. Who is to tell if a roll of DC 60-70 cannot cheat even a detect magic?

I think it is simply too much a fun and essential part of the story to be thrown away on a detect magic

 

[thom_likes_gaming]

Hmm.. good point. As a matter of fact, it's consistent with how I rules the forest itself NOT to be magical, 40-year-long-fire be damned. I reasoned that it's more along the line of psi-effect. So yeah, this being another trillith-effect would be much the same.
Cool, that's that.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wait, can someone explain why Deception would "detect as magic"?

Looking back at his stat block, he has the following spell like abilities:
[sblock]invisibility (self only), Suggestion, greater invisibility (self only)[/sblock]
Anything else he has is Su or Ex. It would not show up to detect magic, none of the other stuff is a spell or spell-like. And the above spell-like abilities wouldn't be active on him when the party encounters him anyway. He has no particularly noteworthy magic items, either.

So what is the problem here? Detect magic only identifies magic auras from spells and magic items. That's it.

 

[RangerWickett]

I mean, arguably he's altered his form, and back in the day I would have let Detect Magic notice supernatural abilities like that.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I mean, arguably he's altered his form, and back in the day I would have let Detect Magic notice supernatural abilities like that.

I wouldn't. It's just a cantrip, and it already is one of the best cantrips. It also creates huge problems, like this.

EDIT: There's already a common method to notice his form is altered, or that he's not the same Vuhl. A spot check. He gets a huge disguise bonus for being actually physically changed instead of just wearing a disguise so it's almost guaranteed no one can make the check, but it's still there.

 

[Mrpereira]

And that plays perfectly along with the fact that he is deception incarnate - of course he can pull it off

 

[thom_likes_gaming]

Wait, can someone explain why Deception would "detect as magic"?

Looking back at his stat block, he has the following spell like abilities:
[sblock]invisibility (self only), Suggestion, greater invisibility (self only)[/sblock]
Anything else he has is Su or Ex. It would not show up to detect magic, none of the other stuff is a spell or spell-like. And the above spell-like abilities wouldn't be active on him when the party encounters him anyway. He has no particularly noteworthy magic items, either.

So what is the problem here? Detect magic only identifies magic auras from spells and magic items. That's it.

Well, there's this on page 35 or the 3.5-version:
[sblock]One seela adept was detecting magic and noticed Vuhl seemed to be affected by some familiar transmutation effect, though the adept thinks he might just have been sleepy that day, and be misremembering. If made Friendly, the adept (who starts as Indifferent) admits that the magic was like something affected by the Song of Forms.[/sblock]
That's what started this whole line of thinking for me. Up to that registering in my mind I had always played the Trillith abilities as more PSI in nature and not detectable with Detect Magic