Spoilers Poll (Poll about spoilers not a poll containing spoilers)

Which is the ethical way to approach spoilers in threads.


billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
I’ve never understood the argument that other people do worse things, therefore I’m allowed to do this unpleasant and rude thing because it’s less bad.

Less bad, is not good or admirable.
Maybe because discussing spoilers that are old isn’t actually a bad thing. That it is something you don’t like doesn’t define it as a bad thing.
 

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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I’ve never understood the argument that other people do worse things, therefore I’m allowed to do this unpleasant and rude thing because it’s less bad.

I dunno.

I've never understood the argument that someone discussing the plot of a movie or book or TV series means that we start tossing around terms like personal autonomy and harm.

The reason people disagree with you is not because they view it as "less bad," but because they think that the obsession with spoilers is silly and counterproductive.
 

TheSword

Legend
I dunno.

I've never understood the argument that someone discussing the plot of a movie or book or TV series means that we start tossing around terms like personal autonomy and harm.

The reason people disagree with you is not because they view it as "less bad," but because they think that the obsession with spoilers is silly and counterproductive.
You don’t have to cause lasting damage to someone for it to be a not pleasant thing, and worth avoiding.

I don’t think this is causing anyone harm. It’s just annoying and a bit mean spirited, selfish and disrespectful.

I’m sure there are lots of politeness that you consider reasonable. You just don’t see this as one of them.
 

It seems to me that the general rule here is the opposite; if a thread isn't specifically tagged as containing spoilers, then it's a no spoilers thread.

I'm not sure about that. People will make passing references to things that (if no statute of limitations on time is considered relevant) could be viewed as spoilers all the time. Because, honestly, few people are going to consider plot elements from a decade old or more TV show or movie a spoiler at this point. People who do, I have to say, I consider on the unreasonable side.
 

The degree to which it is harmful is irrelevant. And not your call, frankly.

Of course it is. At some point, anything you do can be harmful to someone, including things that seem utterly innocuous. Its not your responsibility to have unlimited care in this area.
 



Rune

Once A Fool
Of course it is. At some point, anything you do can be harmful to someone, including things that seem utterly innocuous. Its not your responsibility to have unlimited care in this area.
Of course it is not your call! Deciding that the degree of harm you are about to inflict on someone who cannot do anything to prevent it is too minor to stop you necessarily comes at the expense of their autonomy. You can do it. But you can’t do it without robbing them of something.

Many people may not mind, or even notice. Most, even. But any one reading this thread to this point has been informed (over and over again) that some will.

These people are situationally powerless in our hands. Is it unreasonable for these people to hope we will temper our power over them with a like amount of responsibility?

Is laziness really so much more important than that tiny sliver of respect?
 
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Rune

Once A Fool
Well, I'm not talking about ignoring spoilering in things that came out two months ago. But unless I've misread some posters, they seem to be objecting to doing it for media that came out years ago.
Why should that matter? You cannot know when someone will be exposed to something. It may be old to many – even most. But it isn’t old to everybody.
 

Is laziness really so much more important than that tiny sliver of respect?

When, to satisfy some people in this thread, its necessary with every medium reference ever?

Yes.

Other people do not have unlimited rights to my energies and how I deploy them simply for their own convenience.
 

Why should that matter? You cannot know when someone will be exposed to something. It may be old to many – even most. But it isn’t old to everybody.

Because expecting otherwise is fundamentally unreasonable. Its saying that in this particular sphere, unlimited care is needed because other people may not like it if you don't.
 

TheSword

Legend
Because expecting otherwise is fundamentally unreasonable. Its saying that in this particular sphere, unlimited care is needed because other people may not like it if you don't.
Not unlimited care… not even close.

because it’s really easy to use the spoiler function. It’s not unlimited, just respectful.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
When, to satisfy some people in this thread, its necessary with every medium reference ever?

Yes.

Other people do not have unlimited rights to my energies and how I deploy them simply for their own convenience.
Context matters. You know if the thing you are about to say could potentially ruin something for someone. Without warning, they do not. This gives you power over them.

We agree that others do not have unlimited rights to your energies. This is simply about social decency.

You can choose to wield your power in this situation against the powerless, if you like. That is your right. But you can’t respect them while doing it, because doing so is actively disrespectful.

Should this bother you? Not my call to make. And I’ll respect your autonomy by not going ahead and making it anyway.
 

Ryujin

Legend
I'm not sure about that. People will make passing references to things that (if no statute of limitations on time is considered relevant) could be viewed as spoilers all the time. Because, honestly, few people are going to consider plot elements from a decade old or more TV show or movie a spoiler at this point. People who do, I have to say, I consider on the unreasonable side.
On the other hand, you have the issue of something being produced in a different medium. Having read "The Eternals" comics, way back when, I made some veiled references to how things might go. I never explicitly stated a direction, nor did I even heavily hint at it, because I didn't want to potentially spoil things for people who had never read the comics. People who HAD read the comics would know what I was talking about, without spoiling it for others.

Would it be reasonable to have talked about how things went in the Harry Potter books in a thread about the movies, before they were released, that wasn't explicitly tagged as a spoiler thread? I don't think so but that's the point of this thread, isn't it?
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Because expecting otherwise is fundamentally unreasonable. Its saying that in this particular sphere, unlimited care is needed because other people may not like it if you don't.
I never said anything about “unlimited care.” Nor implied it. It all depends on context.

You know if the words you are about to say reveal a twist. Others don’t know. Unless someone, somehow tells them in advance.

Does this mean we have to filter everything we say? This is a public forum. We already do.

But, I’m not personally expecting anything from anyone. I’m just going to point out that it isn’t unreasonable for people who get willfully bullied by complete strangers to react accordingly.
 

On the other hand, you have the issue of something being produced in a different medium. Having read "The Eternals" comics, way back when, I made some veiled references to how things might go. I never explicitly stated a direction, nor did I even heavily hint at it, because I didn't want to potentially spoil things for people who had never read the comics. People who HAD read the comics would know what I was talking about, without spoiling it for others.

Would it be reasonable to have talked about how things went in the Harry Potter books in a thread about the movies, before they were released, that wasn't explicitly tagged as a spoiler thread? I don't think so but that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

Yeah, that I consider a bit of a different story, but even there, at some point, people just have to accept that people are going to reference things from old books that may finally have been made into movies or TV shows. I do think its polite to avoid that in threads dedicated to such movies and TV shows, but its still going to happen elsewhere and I don't think there's any particular obligation for someone not to say some element in something else reminds them of the Mule in the Foundation books just because we're about to get a series where he probably will show up in some form at some point.
 

But, I’m not personally expecting anything from anyone. I’m just going to point out that it isn’t unreasonable for people who get willfully bullied by complete strangers to react accordingly.

Whereas I think expecting other people to constrain what they're talking about because someone has an extremely elevated level of what they consider "spoilers" is unreasonable. So there we are.
 

On the other hand, you have the issue of something being produced in a different medium. Having read "The Eternals" comics, way back when, I made some veiled references to how things might go. I never explicitly stated a direction, nor did I even heavily hint at it, because I didn't want to potentially spoil things for people who had never read the comics. People who HAD read the comics would know what I was talking about, without spoiling it for others.

Would it be reasonable to have talked about how things went in the Harry Potter books in a thread about the movies, before they were released, that wasn't explicitly tagged as a spoiler thread? I don't think so but that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

And just to elaborate, I think there's a time issue; the first harry potter movie came out only four years after the first book; the book series was still playing out when the movies were made.

I have to say I think that's a different situation than, say, movies or TV shows based on Dune, or Foundation, or the Lord of the Rings (though again, I think some degree of forbearance in threads dedicated to such visual media is warranted). This becomes progressively true with works that has slid so well into the public consciousness that their are references to things that could be spoilers everywhere (a number of Star Wars plot elements come to mind here).
 

Galandris

Foggy Bottom Campaign Setting Fan
Would it be reasonable to have talked about how things went in the Harry Potter books in a thread about the movies, before they were released, that wasn't explicitly tagged as a spoiler thread? I don't think so but that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

What could be discussed, in thread about "HP the movies", without spoiler, if we consider that nothing should be told about the books? It's not because the third film has been released that previous films could be discussed (after all, someone could still not have seen them, as much as he could have missed the books).

Current film: reveals "things" about the current film => spoiler tag
Past film: might spoil people who didn't see the film => spoiler tag
Past books: might spoil people who didn't read them => spoiler tag.

At some point, any HP (or anything, it's easily replaced by anything...) thread will need to include the spoiler tag. Therefore, it's better to make the presence of spoilers the default. In a thread about a HP film, the reader should assume information about HP will be discussed. Same in a thread about having a campaign set in Hogwarts.

It's not the same thing as revealing that Saving Private Ryan ends with the private being saved in a thread about AC calculations.
 

TheSword

Legend
What could be discussed, in thread about "HP the movies", without spoiler, if we consider that nothing should be told about the books? It's not because the third film has been released that previous films could be discussed (after all, someone could still not have seen them, as much as he could have missed the books).

Current film: reveals "things" about the current film => spoiler tag
Past film: might spoil people who didn't see the film => spoiler tag
Past books: might spoil people who didn't read them => spoiler tag.

At some point, any HP (or anything, it's easily replaced by anything...) thread will need to include the spoiler tag. Therefore, it's better to make the presence of spoilers the default. In a thread about a HP film, the reader should assume information about HP will be discussed. Same in a thread about having a campaign set in Hogwarts.

It's not the same thing as revealing that Saving Private Ryan ends with the private being saved in a thread about AC calculations.
There are lots of things I could say about the Harry Potter films that aren’t spoilers. I could say I love the casting of Maggie Smith as McGonnagal. I could talk about how episode one and two were filmed at Durham Uni next to where I had lectures. I could talk about how the choice of words for the spells is interesting, or whether Slytherin house makes you evil. None of these things are spoilers.

Now if I want to specifically talk about Horcruxes, who makes them, what they are and where they are then that would be a spoiler and I’d give people a heads up either in the thread title or with spoiler tags.

you can talk in general terms, but if you’re going to talk specifics you should give advance warning. It’s really not difficult.
 

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