[SPOILERS] THE Return of the King Thread

[pezagent]

Hi all,

Just got back from the movies, thought I would share the enthusiasm. I thought that it was one of the best fantasy movies I've ever seen, especially, as has been mentioned, keeping all three in mind. Most trilogies I've seen (there aren't that many, are there?) try to keep the "theme" going but this was, of course, an entire story told in three acts with three movies. Hard to beat that. Certainly would be inspiring to put more epic novels on the screen in such a fashion.

I have to admit I never finished the novels. My ex-wife loved them, so I started reading them, but I was really into sci-fi at the time and read all the Dune books instead. So althogh I'm familiar with the Hobbit and the characters in LotR, the ending was a pleasant surprise for me.

If people ever ask me why I didn't like Matrix:Revolutions, I'll just point to RotK and say "That's how you wrap up a story."

Regards,

/johnny

 

[John Crichton]

I think the sailing away (end of an era), the sitting in the pub (going back to normality and a whole different kind of despair right after basking in glory) and the crowning (basking in glory) are too important to take out. I think you could take out at least one, probably both of the Sam/Rosie bits... probably the second one, where he comes home after seeing Frodo off.

I thought the 20 minutes of epilogue was great. A fitting ending. Like coming back from a war. Or well, exactly like coming back from a war. Everyone was changed.

Anyone who wore the One Ring had to leave the world. Gandalf had served his purpose and was no use to the world. Merry & Pippen will never be the same. Sam grew up and found himself; he found himself being a leader and a hero. Aragorn accepted his true purpose. Actually the only ones who didn't change that much were Legolas & Gimli who just found each other as friends.

It was fitting that after all they went through that we got to see how they were all truly affected by their journey. Classic.

 

[pezagent]

I think the sailing away (end of an era), the sitting in the pub (going back to normality and a whole different kind of despair right after basking in glory) and the crowning (basking in glory) are too important to take out. I think you could take out at least one, probably both of the Sam/Rosie bits... probably the second one, where he comes home after seeing Frodo off.

Rav

Ho! Before I log off...

These were great scenes and I'm so glad that PJ put them in! Being a New Yorker in New Zealand I could totally relate to the scene in the pub--here's four guys that just saved the Shire but all anyone cares about is a giant pumpkin! I just laughed. And the whole part about Sam going home--to give the audience (us) peace of mind and let us know that Sam went on to live a happy life in the Shire... and the contrast in then gives us that Frodo's journey was to save the Shire so that he could do this... I think these things are important and often overlooked in movies.

In another thread I said that PJ didn't do anything special with LotR but after watching this I can think of one thing he did that Hollywood couldn't--and that's convince the powers that be to trust him to deliver a quality picture that lives up to everyone's expectations. And I think he was able to do that because he is a Kiwi.

Anyway, I'm off... thanks for lettin' me shake-n-share.

/johnny

 

[Belen]

The trilogy is easily the best movies I have ever seen in my life and I cannot imagine any movies living up to them even unto the end of my days.

I used to say the "trilogy" and meant star wars, but no longer. The worst thing about the movie was knowing that you would not go see another next December.

I think that Jackson really portrayed the sense of loss and sadness that you feel when the books conclude.

I sat there last night and literally could not speak or move until the credits ended.

Dave

 

[JoeBlank]

Fantastic conclusion, and an marvel that will likely never be matched. No other movie experience can even come close for me.

I think the sailing away (end of an era), the sitting in the pub (going back to normality and a whole different kind of despair right after basking in glory) and the crowning (basking in glory) are too important to take out. I think you could take out at least one, probably both of the Sam/Rosie bits... probably the second one, where he comes home after seeing Frodo off.

Once the decision was made to do the wrapups at the end of the movie, rather than ending on a more dramatic note, there was really no reason to do the job half-way by trimming them or leaving some of them out. I can't tell you how happy I was that the final scene from the book, with Sam coming home to his family, was included as the final scene in the movie, even down to Sam's line "Well, I'm back."

Sam has been my favorite fictional character for many years, and to see the character done so perfectly on screen is just unbelievable. All too often this sort of thing falls short of expectations, but not this time.

 

[KenM]

Seen it twice now, going again this weekend. Did anyone notice that they did not show the deformed orc general getting killed on screen? Thought that was a little odd, as he was one of the officers.

 

[thalmin]

Please do not tell me about this story. I know it better than you more than likely.

Please don't act so defensive. You needn't take my comments so personally, though you probably are more knowledgable about the books than I (thanks anyway, Mark)

Know now that I am far more on the Tolkien purist side than not. I much prefer the way the book handled certain scenes than PJ.

A simple, non-judgemental statement. I am not such a purist.

Aragorn arrayed his armies in as tactically sound a manner as possible to make it look like he meant real battle in the book. Why? Sauron is intelligent enough to see through a common farce like a battle commander who allows his people to be surrounded by the enemy army before attacking.

True, but he still wouldn't know why, and he might more cautiously watch to see what Aragorn had up his sleeve. Besides the sword.

Another thing that was fairly corny was the "spotlight of Sauron". That was bad.

Agreed.

This movie was real "hit and miss" for me. Parts were very good (the charge of the Rohirrim being magnificent), but some parts just weren't right.

Some significant changes to the story were made for the movie. I am not saying Jackson improved on Tolkien's work, but he made an exceptional movie. It works for me (although Peter really wash pushing the bladder limit.)

 

[Kestrel]

The movie was the best Ive seen in terms of epic scope. Absolutely incredible.

I wanted to see more of Aragorn though. I mean, the film is Return of the King after all. Its like you see him get Anduril, dump Eowyn, command the Dead of Dunharrow, and then command the troops to attack the Black Gate.

I guess I was really missing a scene where everyone in Gondor has the realization that he is the king. The King they have been waiting 37 generations for. Something with the emotional impact of when Boromir says, My King.

I just felt cheapened with him attacking with the Dead Men and then suddenly he's the King.

Other than that, I absolutely loved the film.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, I'm profoundly let down. Yesterday, as has been my tradition for three years now, I went and saw a Lord of the Rings movie on opening day in a nice theatre, and now I can never do that again, except on the off-chance that the Hobbit really is made. I'll have to see it again to tell for sure where this movie rates vs. it's predecessors (and I will on Friday, possibly twice, in fact.) I also feel this was a fitting ending to the series, but I'm already anxiously awaiting the Extended Edition; much of this movie felt rushed, despite it's length. In fact, I had to explain quite a bit to my wife who has never read the series and who wasn't following some of the abbreviated plot streams. In particular, the movie didn't give a good explanation of why Frodo had to leave at the end, and she didn't get that one at all without some discussion. I also explained about the dead men at Dunharrow, but as soon as I did, the movie did, so I was a bit premature there!

Despite Celtavian's complaints, I think this movie was quite possibly the one that cleaves most closely to the books; certainly there's nothing as significant a departure as Theoden and Faramir's characters from the Two Towers.

There were some powerful emotional moments in this one as well. I've been a bit surprised lately, while rewatching the Two Towers on extended DVD and now this one, at the emotional impact that still resonates in our modern culture from the portrayal of heroism as a kind of Ragnarokian fatalism. When the Rohirrim all chanted "Death!" as they charged into battle against a host they had no hope of defeating, I had shivers throughout my body. When Sam, realising (apparently) for the first time, that there would be no return trip, but he still stoutly picked Frodo up and carried him most of the way up the slope of Mt. Doom, I felt something similar. And I understood the satisfaction Theoden had during his dying moments as he said he could now go to his mighty ancestors and not feel ashamed to stand amongst them, or Faramir's willingness to go on an errand that he knew to be suicide.

Indeed, many of the moments that were taken straight from the book resonated much more powerfully with me than they ever did reading it, because I had never imagined them to be powerful moments somehow (although the reverse was certainly often true as well.)

[sigh] Like I said, I'm terribly let down to have the whole experience be essentially over, with the exception of the extended edition scenes to see still. But it will be fun to have my own personal marathon of the three movies once I have all three extended DVDs -- certainly I can have that be my tradition every Christmas holiday when I have the time at home to do that!

 

[Kestrel]

I think Skull of PvP says it best though.

http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20031217