[SPOILERS] THE Return of the King Thread

[Claude Raines]

Do they mention at all that Sam, as the last of the ringbearers, goes west across the sea in the end?

No, nor do they mention Legolas & Glimli passing over the ocean. We do see a shot of Gandalf wearing the red ring, but I don't remember any shot of Elrond wearing his ring.

 

[Desdichado]

Gollum comments on the fact that Sauron has a finger missing on the black hand when the Hobbits are before the Black Gate in the Two Towers, furthermore Tolkien is quite specific in his letters that Sauron had a physical form. Its not really something open to debate.

I agree it's not. Gandalf says quite plainly in "Shadow of the Past" that Sauron's physical form was destroyed but his spirit endured. The best that you can say is that Sauron's form during the War of the Ring was ambiguous, and that Peter Jackson's interpretation is as valid as your own. Your insistence otherwise is what I don't see open to debate.

 

[Kestrel]

Hehe...it was good to see Sloth from Goonies getting work again, he's really come up in the world. Captain of Mordor hordes!

I really think Legolas killing the Mumakil was a tongue in cheek bit of humor on the part of the director. I mean, Eowyn dropped one solo by simply cutting on one's legs. (I kept expecting Luke to show up with grapple gun, lightsaber and grenade)

 

[Claude Raines]

Not quite... here's the full nasty family tree...
Elwing was the daughter of Dior and Nimloth. Dior, whom you may or may not recognize as the son of Beren and Luthien, was clearly half-elven, as Beren and Luthien were human and elf, respectively. Nimloth was (as far as we can tell) a full-blooded Elf.

That makes Dior half-elven and Nimloth full-elven... so Elwing would be 3/4 elven.

If Elwing is 3/4 elven, and Earendil is 1/2 elven, that makes Elros and Elrond 5/8 elven and 3/8 human.

Elros chose to become human and was the progenitor of the kings of Numenor (if memory serves). This is why the Numenoreans are so long-lived. Elrond, of course, chose to become elvenkind, and was granted immortality.

This makes Arwen 13/16 elf, for those keeping score at home.

--The Sigil

Actually, Luthien was half-divine, the daughter of Thingol and Melian (a Maia who stayed in Middle Earth until the death of Thingol). Thus Dior was 1/2 human, 1/4 elf, and 1/4 divine. Elwing is then 5/8 elf, 1/4 human, and 1/8 divine. Elrond becomes 9/16 elf, 3/8 human and 1/16 divine. Finally, Arwen is 3/16 human, 1/32 divine, and 25/32 elf. It is said that her beauty was such that it was like Luthien's, and this was attributed to the blood of the Maia in her veins. Of course, Aragorn also has a smattering of divine blood since he is from the line of Elros, but I won't bother calculating the percentages involved.

 

[Desdichado]

I really think Legolas killing the Mumakil was a tongue in cheek bit of humor on the part of the director. I mean, Eowyn dropped one solo by simply cutting on one's legs. (I kept expecting Luke to show up with grapple gun, lightsaber and grenade)

I kinda liked the Eowyn hamstringing a mumakil scene, myself. In fact, although occasionally over the top and worthy of a good response, in general, I kinda liked the swashbuckling flair added to the movies on occasion. After all, this is cinema, not the books themselves.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

No, nor do they mention Legolas & Glimli passing over the ocean. We do see a shot of Gandalf wearing the red ring, but I don't remember any shot of Elrond wearing his ring.

I don't recall Gimli passing over. I recall from the books that Gimli and Legolas wander middle earth together until Gimli dies. Then Legolas like the other elves leaves for Valinor.

As for Elrond wearing a ring it wasn't shown directly but there was the sceen where they talk about the 3 rings for the elves and show Elrond, Galadrial and someone else (Cirdan in the books before he gives the ring to Gandolf who he felt was wiser than Saruman)

Someone else also asked about why Sam didn't go. This I think was due to the way Jackson edited for time. In the book Sam eventually goes because he was also a ring bearer. In the movie Sam never puts on the ring and only holds it by the chain. It could be argued that that is not enough to qualify as Ring Bearer since also in the movie Boromir picks up the Ring by the chain before giving it back to Frodo.

 

[ASH]

Best movies ever.

Breathtaking.

Near perfect.


I recently read the third book, I never saw anything where they mention Saruon's physical form. If they did it must have been in passing and not real important to the story because I missed them.

I thought the eye was a great way to represent Sauron. Especially when Frodo puts the ring on in Mt. Doom and they eye turns, its really how I imagined it in the book.

I can not think of any real problems with the movie. So what, it was a little different from the book, all in all he changed very little. The things he left out he did elegently.
I really had no problem with Peter Jackson's intepretation of the book, I feel he did a wonderful job.

The problem with making a movie based on a book is that each person can percieve a book differently. One could find more importance in a chapter than another person.

For instance... The end when Sam comes home to his wife and kids is the best ending the movie could have had. Its sort of like saying that life will go on now.

IMO I find it silly to break down a movie that you say you like. Doesn't finding all the faults make the movie less enjoyable to you, especially when they faults I am seeing here are really nitpicky stuff?

EDIT: By you I mean no one in particular!!

 

[Celtavian]

re

Please don't act so defensive. You needn't take my comments so personally, though you probably are more knowledgable about the books than I (thanks anyway, Mark)A simple, non-judgemental statement. I am not such a purist.

My apologies. I'm grumpy when I just get up.

True, but he still wouldn't know why, and he might more cautiously watch to see what Aragorn had up his sleeve. Besides the sword.

Yes, possibly. I just missed the way the book did it.

Some significant changes to the story were made for the movie. I am not saying Jackson improved on Tolkien's work, but he made an exceptional movie. It works for me (although Peter really wash pushing the bladder limit.)

I give you that. Lord of the Rings is visually the most beautiful, awe-inspiring piece of film-making that I have ever seen.

From a plot perspective, it was choppy. My friend noticed the same thing and he hasn't read the books.

I did seriously enjoy the movie, though the Tolkien purist in me couldn't call it perfect.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I truly felt Jackson needed one more movie to tie this up right. I think they were stuck in trilogy mode from the beginning and Lord of the Rings required a break with tradition.

The Battle of the Pelennor fields and all that happened during that time could have been a movie in and of itself. The pacing was so fast it felt like they were stuffing me full of epic, momentous, emotionally powerful moments until my mind was too over-whelmed to care anymore. Just too fast paced for me and not enough time given for the moments to build and reach climax before the next moment came. It was a whirlwind.

Hopefully, the extended edition will work some of this out, even though I am absolutely dead sure they needed another movie. Character development was cut far too short, and another movie would have really allowed the fleshing out of certain characters and moments.

A truly beautiful movie though that has set a new highwater mark for epic filmmaking, tops both its predecessors and that is saying something.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Best movies ever.

I recently read the third book, I never saw anything where they mention Saruon's physical form. If they did it must have been in passing and not real important to the story because I missed them.

In passing just after the ring is destroyed, his spirit rises into the sky and then dissipates.

I thought the eye was a great way to represent Sauron. Especially when Frodo puts the ring on in Mt. Doom and they eye turns, its really how I imagined it in the book.

I didn't so much mind the eye. It was the "spotlight" effect I thought was corny.

I can not think of any real problems with the movie. So what, it was a little different from the book, all in all he changed very little. The things he left out he did elegently.
I really had no problem with Peter Jackson's intepretation of the book, I feel he did a wonderful job.

Return of the King was definitely better than The Two Towers in being faithful to the book. Just slightly too fast-paced for my tastes.

For instance... The end when Sam comes home to his wife and kids is the best ending the movie could have had. Its sort of like saying that life will go on now.

Great final scene. That part was perfect.

IMO I find it silly to break down a movie that you say you like. Doesn't finding all the faults make the movie less enjoyable to you, especially when they faults I am seeing here are really nitpicky stuff?

For me personally, it is like being both sad and happy at the same time. Sad because there are parts you feel are important to the story that are left out or not done properly, and happy that parts of the film are well-done and they equal or exceed what you imagined a scene might look like from the book.

I personally believe this will be the definitive film interpretation of Tolkien's work in my lifetime, for good or ill. This is it. Some Tolkien fans are going to completely satisfied, others will hate it, and I think a good many will be like myself, torn between loving and hating it until we die.

I will watch it again. I will buy the EE of the DVD's. I will always notice the parts that were poorly done no matter how hard I try not to, I will always miss the parts of the story that were left out or changed that I felt were important, and I will always love the parts that were well-done and equaled or exceeded my expectations.

This is the movie all Tolkien fans will have to live with, and live with it I will. I certainly won't call it all good nor all bad, and I'll watch it from time to time just as I read the books from time to time.