SPYCRAFT: The greatest RPG ever made! The best d20 game ever!

[Geoff Watson]

If you don't agree with me, fine. Don't like my answers, great. Just tell me so. No need to be insulting.

I'm done with this portion of the thread. On to sunnier topics!

Edit: Made friendlier. Guess I don't like people insulting me when I'm trying to be helpful.

It seemed like you were ignoring my argument, and just making a cheap shot. I was getting annoyed at people mis-representing my argument and putting words in my mouth.

Geoff.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Geoff, you're not going to play Spycraft. THe rest of us are, whether the Take 20 mechanics are flawed or not. Stop wasting everyone's time, please (to everyone).

You're right. I'm not going to play Spycraft. There are several other serious flaws, in addition to the 'Auto-success on 20' rule.

The main reason I brought that up, was that Kaptain_Kantrip was going on about how wonderful that rule was, when it is actually really bad.

Geoff.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

HUH? I don't remember going on about the auto-20 rule. I don't even remember mentioning it, except to say let's talk about something else BESIDES your quibble. Don't try and pin your exaggerated response on me, buddy! Them's fightin' words!

 

[Voneth]

So ....

What does everyone think of backgrounds? Pretty cool eh? It's a nice way to finaly put some disads in the game. I think most people will be loath to give up skill points for them, so perhaps that will cut down on the "lame, hunted, blind guy who can level a city with an eyeblink." we see in min/maxers.

 

[Geoff Watson]

HUH? I don't remember going on about the auto-20 rule. I don't even remember mentioning it, except to say let's talk about something else BESIDES your quibble. Don't try and pin your exaggerated response on me, buddy! Them's fightin' words!

Read your second post on this thread. You were going on about how awesome it was.
Fighting words? Bring it on!

Geoff.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

What does everyone think of backgrounds? Pretty cool eh? It's a nice way to finaly put some disads in the game.

The thing is, it's not really a disadvantage but an advantage. With backgrounds, you are telling your GC that you want certain elements in the campaign.

And when a background plays a role in the campaign, it gives you some bonus XP. Even at the cost of some skill points, it's a bargain.

But it's also a great way to shape a little the campaign.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

And the *yoinking* is for both players and DM's!!! Ahhh, the feats, so damn cool, don't know what to get! The skills--Now you can roll a 20 and critical on them for awesome MAX results! You can get skill enhancer feats and increase your critical range on bunches of skills!! You can be the smooth talking seductress with men eating out your... um, hand! You can be the ultimate con-man! You can be the world's best race car driver! You can play football like Joe Namath! Whatever you want, you can do, and with the right skill feats, you can do them amazingly well. The skill enhancers bump the threat range of like 3 related skills! So alertness increases the threat range of Listen, Search and Spot from 20 to 19-20, as well as giving the +2 to each skill roll bonus! Now I want that feat! AAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Okay, this has nothing to do with "take 20." It is about Spycraft introducing a threat range to skills, and how to improve that threat range by taking certain feats. So you must have misinterpreted my post, Geoff.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Okay, this has nothing to do with "take 20." It is about Spycraft introducing a threat range to skills, and how to improve that threat range by taking certain feats. So you must have misinterpreted my post, Geoff.

No, it's about 'Auto-success on 20 for skills', which is what I was talking about.

Geoff.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Oh. My bad, then, LOL.

We always played it in 3e so a 1 was a critical failure and a 20 was an automatic success, so I guess I didn't notice the difference between official rules and Spycraft's handling of it, since there was no difference to me. In Spycraft, a critical threat with a skill roll (usually 20 without skill booster feats) is treated as a normal (automatic) success, unless you choose to spend an "action die" to turn it into a critical success, which gives you max results (such as an NPC falling in love with you on a critical success Bluff or Diplomacy check).

I like it [Spycraft's new skill rules] even better than the system I was using before, which I didn't realize was not the official 3e/d20 rules on handling skill checks.

...I still think you're nitpicking this issue to death.

 

[Jester_OC]

Geoff, the auto success rule is not flawed. It is just different.

Can you answer me this. Do you feel that the auto success rule is flawed only when the players have no time constraints (i.e. the players stole a locked case and are trying to crack it at a safe house), or do you feel that even if the players are on a mission (i.e. in the basement of a mob bosses house with guards roaming the house). I can kind of see your point with the former, but not with the latter.

However that said, I must let you know I feel that the auto success rule is much better than the alternative. I hate it (as a player and a DM) that some locks are considered imposible to open by a character of a certain skill. A take 20 takes the fun out of the whole thing. Either they will make it or not. No stress, no fear just a cold hard and quite boring reality.

Jester_OC

Edited to be less of a smart ass!