SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time
- Thread starter Havoc
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drquestion
Explorer
Hey, to each his own, man. I like Oathbound's style, whereas WotC's stuff (with the exception of Manual of the Planes) usually strikes me as competent, but uninspiring.
I don't think that the EnWorld rating system really works this way. It would be one thing if it had a larger scale, or if there were separate style and substance ratings like at rpg.net, but here you're only rating a product on a scale from 1-5, without even 1/2 points.
So, the difference between a four and a five is pretty large. When I see Psion or someone giving a product a 4, I know that they think that it's a high-quality product, one that's definitely useful in its area. On the other hand, giving a book a 5 is like saying "Buy It! Now!" It doesn't mean that the book is perfect in every way, just that it's something that strikes the reviewer as being a particular standout.
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Havoc said:
The mastermind system talks about minions and how to make them- and it exists in the book.
If you must have npc classes, then you can find them in another Spycraft book. (Shadowforce Archer iirc)
You know- you are always welcome to write a review. Just read the faq- the more opinions the better. You may help the decision of someone with similar tastes as you.
To be honest, your only negative comment about the Spycraft game itself seems to come from an incomplete reading of the book
Because the art is average and the book does not throw npc classes in your face- you want to give it 3/5?
You are not a disgruntled fan of the WoT books, are you?
FD
Psion
Adventurer
I think I am stricter than most regular reviewers (not considering the "ranting reviewers"), and I don't even think a 5 has to be perfect. We only have 5 points on the scale to work with, and very few products are truly standout in every way.
I prefer to think of each ENWorld "point" as 20 percentile points. i.e.:
Rating: % score
1: 1-20%
2: 21-40%
3: 41-60%
4: 61-80%
5: 81-100%
Another factor here that has already been touched upon is how the different aspects of a product are weighted. You obviously weight art more heavily than I do. I do consider art -- good art can sell you on a concept and help fire the imagination. But in the end, you play with the content, not the art, so I weight the game material heavier.
But each person has their own sensibilities, and your weightings may not match the reviewer's. Which is why I tell people to read the review, not just look at the scores.
Re: Re: SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time
Hum that is sad that I must buy another book for that.
No I read it entirely, and the example of NPC class was just one thing that came immediatly upon my reading. I could write my own review, but there are enough review about Spycraft, no?
I could elaborate on the 3/5: price of gadget items lacking, strange classes, and generally uninspiring (I ve been spoiled content-wise by GURPS books ); the only thing I liked were the well designed feats.
I am not a fan of WoT, but I just compare a product that hit a near-perfect score with a decent WoTC product (WoT).
That being said, this was not at all a review of spycraft, neither a review of WoT; my point is that, when compared to the often criticised WoTC books, some product get scores that are too generous IMHO... or it is the other way round?
Spycraft 5/5, WoT 6/5
Furn_Darkside said:
Hum that is sad that I must buy another book for that.
To be honest, your only negative comment about the Spycraft game itself seems to come from an incomplete reading of the book
Because the art is average and the book does not throw npc classes in your face- you want to give it 3/5?
You are not a disgruntled fan of the WoT books, are you?
No I read it entirely, and the example of NPC class was just one thing that came immediatly upon my reading. I could write my own review, but there are enough review about Spycraft, no?
I could elaborate on the 3/5: price of gadget items lacking, strange classes, and generally uninspiring (I ve been spoiled content-wise by GURPS books ); the only thing I liked were the well designed feats.
I am not a fan of WoT, but I just compare a product that hit a near-perfect score with a decent WoTC product (WoT).
That being said, this was not at all a review of spycraft, neither a review of WoT; my point is that, when compared to the often criticised WoTC books, some product get scores that are too generous IMHO... or it is the other way round?
Spycraft 5/5, WoT 6/5
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Re: Re: Re: SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time
Did you feel the same way about buying the DMG?
At least spycraft gave you the basics in their book to pull it off.
When I look at the scores, there are times I suspect there is a bit of a fanboy drift to them. But, AEG has hardly inspired such a following.
As for WOTC- they are the standard bearer- and therefor are expected to set that standard.
Do I think some of the scores of WOTC books are too harsh? Sure. WOT is not one of them.
You can't have it both ways- if you don't agree with all the glowing reviews of a product, then don't complain if you are unwilling to write one of your own.
Of course- a person writing a review to move the average score of a product where they think it should be is pretty horrible.
Not that I am suggesting you would do it for that purpose, but if you feel you were misled by the reviews to buy Spycraft, then don't you think you should write your own views down so someone similar to yourself is not misled?
FD
Havoc said:
Did you feel the same way about buying the DMG?
At least spycraft gave you the basics in their book to pull it off.
When I look at the scores, there are times I suspect there is a bit of a fanboy drift to them. But, AEG has hardly inspired such a following.
As for WOTC- they are the standard bearer- and therefor are expected to set that standard.
Do I think some of the scores of WOTC books are too harsh? Sure. WOT is not one of them.
You can't have it both ways- if you don't agree with all the glowing reviews of a product, then don't complain if you are unwilling to write one of your own.
Of course- a person writing a review to move the average score of a product where they think it should be is pretty horrible.
Not that I am suggesting you would do it for that purpose, but if you feel you were misled by the reviews to buy Spycraft, then don't you think you should write your own views down so someone similar to yourself is not misled?
FD
Mortaneus
First Post
The difference between Spycraft and WoT is substantial.
WoT contains nothing (except the chanelling system) that you couldn't easily create in D&D. As psion put it, it's re-warmed D&D. Bleh.
Spycraft took the system by the horns and rewrote practically everything, and made it COOL.
WoT: Channelling Magic System, new base classes, new prestige classes
Spycraft: Mastermind system, skill criticals, Chase system, completely re-worked combat system, unique automatic weapon rules, action dice, gadget and budget point system, new core classes, core feat concept, new prestige classes, TONS of new feats, feat categories, etc.
WoT is nothing more than a D&D rehash.
Spycraft is a completely new GAME, and one that, in many ways, I feel is superior to D&D.
BTW, as for not having $ costs on gadgets, it makes sense. You can't buy them. If you could, they'd have astronomical prices because of they are so far past the tech curve. Giving them a $ value doesn't work.
WoT contains nothing (except the chanelling system) that you couldn't easily create in D&D. As psion put it, it's re-warmed D&D. Bleh.
Spycraft took the system by the horns and rewrote practically everything, and made it COOL.
WoT: Channelling Magic System, new base classes, new prestige classes
Spycraft: Mastermind system, skill criticals, Chase system, completely re-worked combat system, unique automatic weapon rules, action dice, gadget and budget point system, new core classes, core feat concept, new prestige classes, TONS of new feats, feat categories, etc.
WoT is nothing more than a D&D rehash.
Spycraft is a completely new GAME, and one that, in many ways, I feel is superior to D&D.
BTW, as for not having $ costs on gadgets, it makes sense. You can't buy them. If you could, they'd have astronomical prices because of they are so far past the tech curve. Giving them a $ value doesn't work.
Liquide
DEX: 4
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time
Just remember to read the FAQ first mate
http://pub30.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=2554597330&password=&catid=3839&action=showcat
Havoc said:
*sigh* I am afraid that you are right. And that would teach me about thinking about better examples to illustrate my points to boot.
Just remember to read the FAQ first mate
http://pub30.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=2554597330&password=&catid=3839&action=showcat
Last edited:
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time
Heh, I hope you did not take my messages as trying to brow beat you- I just think the more varied reviews we have, then the better our review section is for everyone.
Heck, it is not like I want to see a bad review of Spycraft. But, then the scores mean very little to me.
FD
Havoc said:
Heh, I hope you did not take my messages as trying to brow beat you- I just think the more varied reviews we have, then the better our review section is for everyone.
Heck, it is not like I want to see a bad review of Spycraft.
But, then the scores mean very little to me.FD
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