Stacking Tomes and Manuals

[SpikeyFreak]

They don't stack, but unless your group comes across dozens of these books it really shouldn't make a difference. In four campaigns I think we've seen 2 books that raise attributes. It's real easy for the DM to keep a handle on this, so we've never had a problem.

Except that players can make them.

The question that I have that just came up is what happens when you lose 2 permanent inherant ability points?

According to the DMG, the maximum cumulative inherant bonus is +5, but if you lose 2 points, does that mean you now can gain back that 2 plus an additional 5 points?

And, what is the maximum penalty? Is it possible that you can lose a maximum of 5 inherent ability points?

I have never seen an inherant penalty. If there were one though, you take the highest negative and highest possitive, then add them together to get the net bonus.

--Sleepy Spikey

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Nope, don't stack. Inherent bonuses don't stack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can't... help...

... must... quote!

"You're right, no human being would stack books like this."

- Dr Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

-Hyp.

 

[Scarab]

My bookshelf broke down (can you say "avalanche"?), so now I have to stack all my tomes and manuals on the floor until I can get a new one. Very annoying. Can't clean the room until I get rid of the books.

 

[Jhamin]

The question that I have that just came up is what happens when you lose 2 permanent inherant ability points?

According to the DMG, the maximum cumulative inherant bonus is +5, but if you lose 2 points, does that mean you now can gain back that 2 plus an additional 5 points?

And, what is the maximum penalty? Is it possible that you can lose a maximum of 5 inherent ability points?

Couple of points here:

1 - I think you are confusing an inherant bonus with your base statistics. Your base Statistics you begin with (rolled or bought at character creation) are diffrent from the inherant statistics you pick up later with wishes or tomes. If you lost two points from your BASE statistic and had a +3 to it from an inherant bonus you do not have a +1 inherant bonus, you have a +3 inherant bonus on statistics that are two points below the base due to a penalty.

2 - There is a list of possible powers listed under wish. They are accompanied by bulleted points. The ability to add to your own statistics is listed under the seventh bullet. This is where the mention of inherant bonuses are found. The ability of a wish to undo statistic penalties is found either under bullet six or bullet eight depending on exactly what caused you to lose the stats. As there is no mention in either of those entries of inherant bonuses I tend to infer that the wish helps you by removing the origional cause of the stat decrease rather than by adding inherant levels to counterbalance the penalties.

 

[hong]

Except that players can make them.

True, but given the prerequisites (wish or miracle) and XP cost, most players probably aren't going to bother.

 

[Albereth]

Okay, let's say you have a character with a base Int of 12. He has read a Tome that adds +2 inherent bonus to his Int taking him to 14. Now while out adventuring he runs into a creature/trap/whatever that drains his Int (either temporarily or permanently). Can he only be drained of his base 12 or can he be drained of all 14 pts? The DMG states:

Various attacks casue ability score loss, either temporary ability damage or permanent drain ........ Drains, however, are permanent, they restoration can restore even those lost ability scores.

While any loss is debilitating, losing all points in an ability score can be devastating.

......

Intelligence 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a comalike stupor, helpless.

If a character can not have inherent bonuses drained then do they drop unconcious when their Int goes to 0 by draining their starting Int plus any added by level gaining? If it does take draining all 14 points then you conceivably have just lost 2 inherent points. If you use restoration are the first points brought back considered any inherent bonuses you had accrued??

Enquiring minds want to know

 

[Hypersmurf]

If a character can not have inherent bonuses drained then do they drop unconcious when their Int goes to 0 by draining their starting Int plus any added by level gaining? If it does take draining all 14 points then you conceivably have just lost 2 inherent points. If you use restoration are the first points brought back considered any inherent bonuses you had accrued??

Let's look at a simpler example first.

The character with 12 intelligence is wearing a +2 Headband of Intellect.

If he is drained of 12 points of Int, the Headband's enhancement bonus still gives him an Intelligence of 2, so he's conscious. If he should take off the Headband, his Int would drop to 0, and he'd collapse.

If the bonus was an inherent bonus, the same would apply. He could be drained of 13 points, and still be conscious due to the inherent bonus. If the effect of the Tome was somehow dispelled, he would drop to -1 Int. But otherwise, all 13 points can be restored through Restoration or natural ability healing - he retains his +2 inherent bonus even if his "base" ability score goes negative.

-Hyp.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Okay, let's say you have a character with a base Int of 12. He has read a Tome that adds +2 inherent bonus to his Int taking him to 14. Now while out adventuring he runs into a creature/trap/whatever that drains his Int (either temporarily or permanently). Can he only be drained of his base 12 or can he be drained of all 14 pts? The DMG states:



If a character can not have inherent bonuses drained then do they drop unconcious when their Int goes to 0 by draining their starting Int plus any added by level gaining? If it does take draining all 14 points then you conceivably have just lost 2 inherent points. If you use restoration are the first points brought back considered any inherent bonuses you had accrued??

Enquiring minds want to know

You know, it's not as complicated as you make it sound. If you start with 12 points, get a +2 inherent bonus, and are drained of 14 points, you have points and fall unconcious. You still have a +2 inherent bonus, though: base 12, +2 inherent, -14 *whatever*. If you gain back 2 points, you'll have 2: base 12, +2 inherent, -12 *whatever*. (Replace "whatever" with the type of decrease you're talking about.)

 

[Albereth]

Correct, but in that case you are not really permanently losing the +2 inherent even though the attack may permanently drain the points. In actuallity, you are only temporarily negating the inherent bonus. So, if you get a restoration cast on you and gain back 2 of your permanently drained Int points the negation of the inherent bonuses is over and you would actually gain back 4 points of Int?