Staggered

[Water Bob]

I would avoid like the plague the idea of being staggered at taking more damage than my CON score, especially if that number is close to 10 and fighting a barbarian or fighter who got a lucky hit.

What about baseing it on the Massive Damage threshold then? Take half that number. So, any damage of 25+ points would stagger the target unless the Fort save is made.

Even if you did go with the CON score, you could throw in the save so that higher level characters are less likely to be staggered.

You're right about the 10 CON, though. Half the Massive damage threshold is probably a better idea, easy to remember, and the character can still resist with the Fort save.

Maybe make the Fort save a 10+ throw instead of 15+?

If the Fort save is failed, then the character is staggered for a number of rounds that the save missed by.





For example: Fred the Fighter takes 27 points of damage in one blow. This is over 25 points and has the potential to stagger him.

He throws a DC 10 Fort Save and rolls a 7. This means he will be staggered for 3 rounds.



Just thinking out-loud here.

Something like this would be a hoot when taking on the Fire Giants, huh?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

This idea shoud go in another thread, but what about taking the staggered condition and making it the resut of a particulary powerful hit?

It would be kind of like a Critical Threat. Or, maybe it's an option instead of doing extra damage when a Critical is thrown.

...so, instead of doing extra damage, the blow would cause the target to be staggered for a round (maybe longer? ...just thinking out of the box, here).

Or...maybe it's part of the critical hit. For example, a Critical is thrown. If the damage is more than the target's CON score, then the target is also staggered for one round.

Thoughts?

I think suffering tremendous damage from a single attack or being critically hit sucks enough already without making it even more debilitating. I'm also generally against significantly increasing the role of sheer dumb luck in gaining an advantage in combat beyond what the rules already provide for.

EDIT: Another gamist complaint about adding an effect to large amounts of single hit damage: It's grossly unfair to fighting styles like TWF or a monk's flurry of blows which tend to do small amounts of damage lots of times, compared with a power attacking two-handed weapon user, which is already the best melee style in the game.

 

[Water Bob]

I think suffering tremendous damage from a single attack or being critically hit sucks enough already without making it even more debilitating. I'm also generally against significantly increasing the role of sheer dumb luck in gaining an advantage in combat beyond what the rules already provide for.

EDIT: Another gamist complaint about adding an effect to large amounts of single hit damage: It's grossly unfair to fighting styles like TWF or a monk's flurry of blows which tend to do small amounts of damage lots of times, compared with a power attacking two-handed weapon user, which is already the best melee style in the game.

The wording is a bit challenging, but the reason to discuss it here (and not just change our games with rules like this) is to explore all side. And, even if the dude is slightly impaired in the area of tact, there is a point among his words.

 

[Water Bob]

To the tune of "Shattered" by the Rolling Stones



Staggered, staggered.
Down and out he steps and swings
I’m barely standing on my feet
Look at me, I’m in tatters!
I’ve been staggered
Staggered

It’s getting alarming
I'm sure I don't look so charming
Life and loss at this meet and greet
My Adam’s apple
People dressed like armored cans
Combat addicts
Some kind of magic
Staggered

A left and a right and a slam, bam, thank you ma’am.
Look at me, I’m in tatters
I’ve been staggered
Staggered

All this clangy-clinky-clacky-ching-aling about
What’s a matter with me? What’s a matter with you?
This round’s been seeing me in tatters (staggered, staggered)
Swing my glove and swing my axe
Enemy rolls a critical for success, success, success, success
Does it matter? (any more)
I’ve been staggered
Staggered

Ahhhh, look at me, I’m staggered
I’ve been staggered
Yeah, look at me. I’ve been staggered

Pride and joy go out the window
During this round, I’m not my best
Swing and pound while the blood trickles to my feet
And look at me. I’m in tatters, yeah
I’ve been battered, but what does it matter
Does it matter, uh-huh
Does it matter, un-huh, I’ve been shattered

Don’t you know my hit points have been going down, down, down, down, down
To live through this round you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!
You got orcs on the left side
Bugbears up in front
What a mess I’m in. This round’s in tatters, and I’ve been staggered
My brain’s been battered, splattered all over the captain

Uh-huh, this round is for the monster goblins
Go ahead, bite the big one, don’t mind the maggots, huh
Shadoobie, my brain’s been battered
My friends don’t come around with aide
Pitter, patter, go their feet, I'm bitter as they scatter, scatter, scatter, scatter
Pile it up, pile it up high on a platter

I’ve been staggered

 

[Tovec]

The wording is a bit challenging, but the reason to discuss it here (and not just change our games with rules like this) is to explore all side. And, even if the dude is slightly impaired in the area of tact, there is a point among his words.

I agree with what StreamOfTheSky was trying to say. It is a little unfair to characters which are unable to deal more damage and it does reward dumb luck or characters built around a huge crit range. Those types of characters already get rewarded in various other bonuses in the system (crits being one of them).

As far as your song, I'm not sure what the point of that was..

In your games you should feel free to make any houserules you like, what I think we should be discussing is the general practice of the houserule change suggested here.

Our thoughts seem to be that putting staggered on massive damage and crits feels overpowered. You feel they are about right. I'm asking is there a next step we can move onto?