Stand your ground damn you!

[K'Plah Q'Houme]

I just wrote a thread some minutes ago, which probarly due to the "language barrier" got misunderstood, but has turned out to be interresting just the same.
This is what I originaly wanted to comment about_:

I dislike battle strategies where ones opponant makes one attack action then runs his speed, stopping to see if you will follow, can follow. If you follow and are capable to make one attack action against him, then when its his turn again he strikes at you and runs away (classic Monk strategy... god, how I hate that character). The whole scenario is repeatet over and over again, taking up precious palying time until somebody has died. Now I consider this strategy as working occasionaly, but having a character (or NPC) who does this every time there is a battle makes me cracy.
I find it a cowardly way to fight, and frankly I'm sick and tired of it.
Now as a DM I can "correct" the characters way of gaming by countering this tedious strategy, but as a player i'm lost to the whim of my DM.
My message: "Please stop running away, stand your ground and fight like a man".

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

If they are making one attack action then moving away, you should be getting an attack of opportunity against them. That makes it not such a great strategy unless they have spring attack or some other such feat.

 

[Doctor Bomb]

LOL

As a long time DM, I can tell you that if the NPC keeps running away, he's got one or two things on his mind:

1) Lead you into a trap/ambush/more favorable terrain;

2) Test your Might, then report back to his master;

3) Doesn't want to fight you to the death for some reason, but just can't run fast enough to escape;

4) Has a death wish but can't bring himself to just plunge onto your sword/spear/lance/sharp rocks and is looking for somebody worthy of knocking him off.

So as a player, you have a couple things you can and probably should do:
1. Buy a damn Tanglefoot BAG!! Throw that at him, and fill him full of arrows/bolts/sling bullets/magic missiles.

2. Bait and Switch: Yell at him that he's a coward, and probably couldn't defeat your pet/mom/little sister, and run the OTHER way.

3. Just stand there and use ranged weapons until you run out of ammo or he's out of range. Once you see his reaction to this strategy, you will have a better idea of what you are dealing with.

That's my $2,134 (2 cents, 1776, adjusted for inflation)

 

[dreaded_beast]

Ah, I understand where you are coming from a bit better now.

In my opinion, that is the preferred way for some classes to fight, namely rogues and perhaps monks, who have Tumble as a class skill. In addition, if you have the Spring Attack feat, more often than not, you will be fighting that way as well.

I think it is a matter of play style. Talk with your DM if you find this a problem.

 

[Telperion]

I really don't see any difficulty with turning the tables on a hit-and-run NPC. There are plenty of spells that will slow or stop a mobile character, and not all of them are high level. Web, Entangle and Slow come to mind immediately and there are many more spells that can be used for slowing down opponents given a little thought.

If you don't have spell casters to do the work for your then how about disarming/sundering your opponent's weapon? Without Improved Unarmed Attack, or natural weapons, he isn't going to be doing much without a weapon.

If we are talking about a monk then that's abit more difficult, but simply refusing to follow the NPC resolves that problem. Set a Ready action that has the following trigger: "when that monk comes into range I hit him". Or you can just shoot him full of arrows. Anyone can fire a crossbow and the monk can only grab one arrow per turn (assuming he has the necessary feat).

If a spell caster is using hit-and-run tactics on you then all you have to do is grapple him and gang up on the poor NPC.

A rogue is a bit more dangerous if he can get a Sneak Attack, but other than that the NPC is going to be doing very little damage. Feint is a nice move, but even if you have Improved Feint you still have to use a move action to do it.

So, what is your problem? In my experience if an opponent has to use the dubious tactic of hitting once and running away then the opponent has weaknesses that can be exploited by the PCs.

As a player I say: if you don't like your opponent's hit-and-run tactics, then do something about it. There are lots of options.

As a DM I say: the same as above, but also keep in mind that hit-and-run tactics are viable tactics. Irritating your opponent into irrational actions, wearing down an opponent over a long period or simply sniping and then running away to snipe again are all effective ways to fight a battle that would be lost within a few rounds in a straight-forward confrontation. Using your head in a fight is not against the rules.

If you are plagued by multiple hit-and-run encounters then maybe it would be a good idea to think of an effective counter-tactic for these encounters. That way when the DM pulls out another hit-and-run NPC you know what to do and the encounter doesn't last so long. Either that or you are challenging your DM to think of better tactics. Either way: combat shouldn't be such a bother anymore.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Opinions and Counter Strats

I think that you also need to account for a few things.

1) Any DM or Player is fully permitted to take any action intended to make a character survive, regardless of how annoying it is.

2) It may be a cowardly way to fight, but some opponents ARE cowards.

3) Its not an opponents responsibility to stand in line and get mowed down by a full attack. A full attack is bloody scary when the attaker has mulitple attacks and enough of an attack bonus to hit on nearly every attack.

That said, it is a strat that can be countered.

- Get adjacent, and set a readied action to perform a partial charge at someone when they finish their movement. They move, you get your partial charge and a +2 charge bonus and attack. If they still try to cast a spell or use their bow, you also get an AoO.

- Grappling the opponent will keep them from going anywhere.

- Using a Trip attack will force your opponent to use a move action to take his feet. They can still move away, or attack, but not both.

- Use a bow and just drill the opponent while they run around like an idiot.

There are more possible solutions to this, but they begin to assume feats or resources that arent guaranteed. No spells are listed, because I suspect you need solutions for a melee type.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[shilsen]

My message: "Please stop running away, stand your ground and fight like a man".

My message: "Please don't assume that fighting like a man involves having less than two neurons in one's brain and fighting in a non-strategic manner." Seriously, what you define as bravery is what I define as idiocy. Sure, standing there and fighting toe-to-toe may be the best strategy - if you're a certain type of character. But if you're not, then it only makes sense that you fight the way it best benefits you. My definition of a man (or a woman) is as an intelligent (yes, I know it's delusional, but this is fantasy ) creature which uses tactics and circumstances to best advantage. Standing in one place and fighting, whatever the circumstances, doesn't suit a human being. It's fine for a really dumb creature like an ogre, or a mindless creature like a golem, maybe, but for a man? Yuck!

 

[Crothian]

If you really want to stop him in game then have your character make fun of him. Laught at the guy in combat, ridicule his strategy. Role play it out, don't complain on a message board.

 

[Chimera]

This is a time-honored strategy.

Either to test the enemy, or something like counting-coup (sp?), or like the Mongols, where they would rush up, launch arrows and retreat, hoping (and usually succeeding) in goading your troops into breaking discipline and following them into an ambush.

Much harder to do on a smaller level, especially when your opponents may be spellcasters.

Simple answer: Don't run after him. Have your buddies pull out the missile weapons and spells, and make him pay.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

My message: "Please don't assume that fighting like a man involves having less than two neurons in one's brain and fighting in a non-strategic manner." Seriously, what you define as bravery is what I define as idiocy. Sure, standing there and fighting toe-to-toe may be the best strategy - if you're a certain type of character. But if you're not, then it only makes sense that you fight the way it best benefits you.

I agree with this. What's more, I think it's highly dependent on your foe, rather than your own PC's strengths.

For instance, our group was fighting a dragon a few sessions ago. It had five attacks that pretty much always hit. We wound up standing around it and trading blow-for-blow which, IMO, was a horrible strategy. It's attacks were far more devastating than ours were. If we'd had the means (the fighter with Spring Attack, the pally with Ride-By Attack), trading one of its attacks for all of ours would have been much, much better.

Is this "cowardly" fighting? Not IMO.