"Standard Thief S***"

[MrFilthyIke]

Really? You prefer that the player repeatedly say "I move silently..I hide in shadows...I search the door...I search the floor... move silently..I hide in shadows...I search the door...I search the floor..."?

I do.

 

[Umbran]

If the player can condense it into a macro, so can the DM. It isn't a whole lot of work if you pre-roll the SOP for the few cases that matter. Then, so long as you always refer to your pre-rolled sheet, they cannot tell if the case mattered or not.

 

[Rothe]

Rogue PCs in many of my own campaigns, and in campaigns where I was a player, have announced that the are performing "Standard Thief S***". I generally take this to mean...

... they are ahead of the party by at least 30 ft.
... they are attempting to move silently.
... they are searching for traps.
... when encountering a door, they do a search for traps on the floor in front of a door and then search the door for traps.
... they listen at doors.
... they attempt to unlock locked doors.

I occasionally find this irritating -- not the procedure, but the fact that the player feels they can summarize all of this as standard operating procedure and hand it off to the DM and not worry about it.

On the other hand ... I have played rogues before ... I know the tedium of repeating all of that stuff. It only makes sense. Unless speed is an issue, if I'm scouting ahead I'd do all that stuff all the time. If I don't establish a SOP, then it becomes a game of "can the DM catch me forgetting one of my standard steps".

Finally, does a procedure like this essentially nullify the fun of traps in a dungeon? Frankly, unless I'm running published adventures, traps are the least likely thing PCs will encounter. Maybe it's because I don't find them fun, and maybe it's because any reasonably cautious rogue is going to find them?

Thoughs?

IME SOP is my preferred way as DM and player. To me it's part of the training of being a thief and I hate the game of gotcha. I do take out of the SOP actions (besides checking for traps) that requiring touching something, like listen at door, pick lock, etc., and have the player tell me if that is standard or not. Part of SOP for me is also general character caution, looking at the ceiling, keeping an eye out behind them (a good job for a backpack riding familiar) never having all characters involved in tasks (always someone on guard just tell me who) etc. This works as my palyers work together as a team, if they were all backstabbing each other I'd rule otherwise.

SOP, and caution in general, is fine by me it just takes time (game not real time). However, sometimes you don't have the time or taking extra time allows the enemy to set defenses, warn others etc.

I'd rather challenge players with situations that are designed to challenge even the well prepared and cautious party. It works both ways, players tell me when I forget something or they have an idea for a better tactic for an opponent, really.

So all for SOP, it's no panacea for danger but it does require the GM to up their game so to speak.

 

[Klaus]

I'm all for shorthanding things... to a degree.

A player of mine who played a ranger stated that he was entering "stealth mode" whenever they entered a dungeon (i.e., walking 30' ahead of the full-plate cleric, Hiding and Moving Silently).

But I don't penalize the players for not saying they're "paying attention". I assume that, upon entering an Evil Compound of Painful Death, they're keen on their Spot and Listen skills.

 

[Henry]

Well, you could do like me and just not bother with traps....

...but... but... What do you use to demean and berate the players' intelligence with? What do you do with your urges to cackle madly when the PCs saunter down a corridor freely?

More seriously, traps for me are a staple of adventure fantasy - Indiana Jones, Flash Gordon serials, even the Egyptians and their tombs. But overdoing it can be boring for players, too, I'll admit.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

...but... but... What do you use to demean and berate the players' intelligence with? What do you do with your urges to cackle madly when the PCs saunter down a corridor freely?

Agreed, hong has left me

More seriously, traps for me are a staple of adventure fantasy - Indiana Jones, Flash Gordon serials, even the Egyptians and their tombs. But overdoing it can be boring for players, too, I'll admit.

Q.F.T.

 

[hong]

...but... but... What do you use to demean and berate the players' intelligence with? What do you do with your urges to cackle madly when the PCs saunter down a corridor freely?

Someone at the other end, with a lightning bolt prepared....

 

[shilsen]

I agree. When I'm running a game and someone says that, they're essentially saying: "here you go, DM, here's a whole load of work for you and stuff for you to remember. You need to make dozens of rolls every couple of minutes for the entire evening for me. I'll just sit back and put my feet up - let me know when I'm needed for anything."

Different strokes.

For me as a DM, it would mean the player is saying, "I'm trying to cut down on your work as a DM by letting you know what I'm going to do ahead of time, so when you're prepping for a session or working out in your head during the session what we're coming to next, you can preroll my rolls and note what happens to me, or work out on the spot but with advance warning, or whatever suits you."

 

[Pbartender]

Thoughs?

When I play a rogue -- and I play lots of rogues -- I do the same thing. When one of play players is playing a rogue, I, as the DM, usually set the same sort of system.

The assumption is that while he is performing "SOP" functions, nothing particularly exciting or stressful is going on, and he's Taking 10 on all those checks. If he wants to actually roll, or he want to Take 20, then he's got to pipe up and let me know. That prevents me from having to make the dozens of extra rolls Morrus is talking about, but alleviates the Rogue from all the tedium of those same dice rolls.

All I need to know are his skill bonuses +10. Any DCs less than are pretty much automatic successes... and I think they should be, practically. Anything greater than that, he's going to need to need to let me know he's rolling or Taking 20.

 

[drothgery]

I really dislike more than a handful of traps; more than that I'm looking for ways to bypass the trap system entirely (disitegrating walls, wind walking through the dungeon, find a way to scry for the McGuffin and teleport to the end...).

And put me down in favor of 'standard rogue stuff'; it avoids spending lots of time searching rooms with no secret doors and the like.