Standing and fighting

[Drowbane]

... And I’ve seen TPKs result from such behavior.

Heroes in books and movies often run from, hide from, and avoid unnecessary or dangerous fights. Why do RPG heroes always choose to fight?

Have you ever seen PCs run from, hide from, surrender to, or avoid unnecessary and dangerous encounters? Is it a Player mentality? Is it a DM description?

Quasqueton

I blame it on the player-myth that the DM will always generate "balanced" encounters no matter what. Balanced encounters = xp and loot. Why run from that? As a DM, I will ruthlessly dish out TPKs until players get past this myth. In fact, when I call for characters for a game, I expect everybody to roll up three characters.

Now, thats not to say I don't generate balanced fights more often than not, I have no qualms with throwing out a creature the PCs should run from. In the past this has resulted with the PCs barely surviving encounters and feeling heroic for killing something out of thier league.

On a related note, any Dragon I run is aimed at a TPK (unless the PCs are brilliant).

 

[Hairfoot]

I blame it on the player-myth that the DM will always generate "balanced" encounters no matter what. Why run from that?

That's my reading, too. Take the training wheels off!

 

[Wolfwood2]

I blame it on the player-myth that the DM will always generate "balanced" encounters no matter what. Balanced encounters = xp and loot. Why run from that? As a DM, I will ruthlessly dish out TPKs until players get past this myth. In fact, when I call for characters for a game, I expect everybody to roll up three characters.

I completely disagree with this statement. I don't think that players immediately move into combat mode because they're expecting a "balanced" encounter. They jump into combat mode because that's the best way to protect themselves from overwhelming encounters.

Running is a dangerous business. Usually more dangerous than fighting. (Note that I don't classify, "failing to antagonize a dragon that's feeding half a mile away" as running.)

Given the choice between an enemy they can easily defeat and an enemy that they would have almost no chance, players are a lot more likely to try a non-combat solution with the enemy they can easily defeat and spend their time stacking the odds on the overwhelming enemy to beat it. Why? Because failing at a non-combat solution may easily lead to combat. If it does, then you're likely to be at a disadvantage compared to normal.

The idea that players only seek out fights they know they can beat is just not true.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I was thinking about this thread and realized there are a couple interesting assumptions being used here.

The main one is encounter range. How far away does the encounter start?
It seems most of the 'combat first' opinions are based on a close encounter range, were running from the encounter means immediate pursuit with the hazard of stragglers falling behind


I am on the same page as Drowbane. Playes should expect to encounter things out of thier league, and should know the early running may well be the smartest option.

 

[Gold Roger]

There are many reasons for my players not to stand and fight:

-Fights are not the main source for xp

-most fights won't lead to phat loot

-I will use encounters "out of league" and not pull any punches in a streight up fight

-I will usually give the ability for an out after letting the players sweat for a time (and see if they come up with one on their own)

-We've already had almost TPK's when the players picked a hard fight (like attacking a bunch of fey hidden in the treetops with the only ranged combatand blind)

-My villains will surrender when it feels appropiate

And yet they will often stand and fight whenever possible.

I think pacing has a lot to do with when the party fights. Fighting is a big part of the game and most players game to fight one way or another. A encounter at the start of a session will be much more likely to end in a fight, because the players are itching for a fight.

If there have already been some fights in the day the party may hold back.

 

[Kid Socrates]

I was a player in a three-person game (myself, one other player, and the DM) where we got in MORE trouble for running than standing and fighting, which was kind of annoying. We were heroes, yeah -- we had a job to do, transporting a noble's body via the lightning rail to Karrnath. We abandoned the train when it was attacked by Valenar elves ("Vel! You're outside! What's going on?" "I found the leader!" "Great! How are our chances?" "Surrender or die, that's pretty much how it's going to be!" "Surrendering sounds great!"). We then surrendered to a group of half-orcs who attacked the elves. Then the elves fought the half-orcs, so we stole some horses and ran away.

Later we got a carriage, were accosted by guards, ran again, and then died in a carriage accident.

Kinda soured me on playing for a while, as we felt railroaded, but I took over GMing after that.

So we tried the "running away" thing, but it didn't go so well.