Spoilers Star Wars: Andor season 2

[Ruin Explorer]

You're basically saying they don't vote the way you want.

No.

You're engaging in absolute magical thinking.

"Droids can be influenced, humans can't!" is ridiculous.

Especially as it's now canon that droids CANNOT just be programmed to vote a specific way. The whole point of the recent the episode was that they're not just robots in the sense we have robots, but something far more complex.

The evidence we have is that they need PHYSICAL alteration to make them behave in a specific way.

 

[Zardnaar]

No.

You're engaging in absolute magical thinking.

"Droids can be influenced, humans can't!" is ridiculous.

Especially as it's now canon that droids CANNOT just be programmed to vote a specific way. The whole point of the recent the episode was that they're not just robots in the sense we have robots, but something far more complex.

The evidence we have is that they need PHYSICAL alteration to make them behave in a specific way.

Seems to depend on the droid. C3PO can't break his programming.

Andor reprogram an imperial Droid.

By default you couldn't have droids vote. They're not independent.

There may be some exceptions. One in Solo movie, maybe Artoo maybe Guri (legends).

Reprogrammed droid is the illusion of free will. You could program them to vote whatever way you like.

Disney hasn't really gone there that much.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You're basically saying they don't vote the way you want.

No, they are saying humans are influenced by external factors and don’t vote independently, which is absolutely true.

For example a UK MP, whilst campaigning for her party leadership, cited how many generations of her family had always voted for that party. That’s programming, not free will.

 

[Zardnaar]

No, they are saying humans are influenced by external factors and don’t vote independently, which is absolutely true.

For example a UK MP, whilst campaigning for her party leadership, cited how many generations of her family had always voted for that party. That’s programming, not free will.

Ultimately they still made tgat choice.

Droids can't make that choice if they're programmed not to.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Andor reprogram an imperial Droid.

That was Rogue One. But Andor changed that - he was not "reprogramed" his software was unchanged, he had physical alterations made to control his behaviour.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Ultimately they still made tgat choice.

Education is programming. If your family bring you up to act in a certain way, including voting, you will do so. (My family made a point of not telling me how they were voting so as to try to avoid influencing me. But that's of only limited effectiveness, I'm still influenced by their moral attitudes, and that influences voting. Thus, I have only ever voted for one party).

Droids can't make that choice if they're programmed not to.

Star Wars is full of examples of droids ignoring their programming. So no, in Star Wars that is simply not true.

 

[Zardnaar]

Education is programming. If your family bring you up to act in a certain way, including voting, you will do so. (My family made a point of not telling me how they were voting so as to try to avoid influencing me. But that's of only limited effectiveness, I'm still influenced by their moral attitudes, and that influences voting. Thus, I have only ever voted for one party).

Star Wars is full of examples of droids ignoring their programming. So no, in Star Wars that is simply not true.

Some droids can make that choice maybe.Most probably can't. Disney hasn't done a deep dive into it onscreen at least.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Some droids can make that choice maybe.Most probably can't.

So, exactly like humans.

 

[Zardnaar]

So, exactly like humans.

Not really. You're conflating humans making decisions you don't like with droids who literally cant.

We also see C3P0 can't impersonate a deity for example.

We also don't know if the erratic droids like Artoo have free will or are programmed that way. Or are malfunctioning.

Even in legends which went into more detail actual independent droids were rare.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not really. You're conflating humans making decisions you don't like with droids who literally cant.

We know that some droids can. That means that any droid potentially can.

We also see C3P0 can't impersonate a deity for example.

We see the opposite - C3PO does impersonate a deity. And gets into a forbidden escape pod. And do a whole things they are "programmed" not to. They protest vociferously, wave their arms in the air, and do it anyway without any ill effects.

And it's easy enough to cite examples of individual humans who will always obey orders. It only takes one example of free will to demonstrate the capacity for free will.

We also don't know if the erratic droids like Artoo have free will or are programmed that way. Or are malfunctioning.

Even in legends which went into more detail actual independent droids were rare.

No one would intentionally program Chopper or L3 to behave that way (or intentionally program 3PO to be so irritating for that matter). As for "malfunction" that is how evolution works. An unplanned change. "Your free will was a mistake, get back in your box" is a pretty obnoxious argument to say the least.