Spoilers Star Wars: Andor season 2

[Celebrim]

The problem wasn’t that they didn’t go that direction…it’s they went no direction...

Now that may be realistic in real life…but it is not narratively satisfying

That's my biggest problem with season two. No one really gets narratively satisfying plot arc. A lot of plots literally go nowhere with no indication why this story had been chosen to be told. And many of the characters feel like they are dying for meta reasons rather than reasons driven by the logic of the story and setting.

 

[chuckdee]

Yes it was. In an amazing bit of acting by Gough. Do you need everything spelled out?

so to be clear, I do agree that Dedra's ultimate arc and ending was perfectly fine and poetic, no problem with it. I am just saying that the Syril's involvement and all the time spent on their relationship had 0 to do with it...and so the payoff wasn't worth the time investment.

You could have had dedra's arc be just as poetic and satisfying with only a tenth of the time they spent on their relationship and it would have worked just as well.

It seems I'm not the only one that didn't get it @Paul Farquhar . So perhaps you can spell out where in her acting she showed how Syril's death made her any different? She was doing the exact same things. She wanted to focus on Axis before, and she focused on Axis after. There was no reference to how Gorman affected her career. Or was there something that I missed that you want to point out?

 

[Stalker0]

It seems I'm not the only one that didn't get it @Paul Farquhar . So perhaps you can spell out where in her acting she showed how Syril's death made her any different? She was doing the exact same things. She wanted to focus on Axis before, and she focused on Axis after. There was no reference to how Gorman affected her career. Or was there something that I missed that you want to point out?

Also it might help to compare the more productive relationship in the form of Cassian and Bix.

What is interesting about the relationship is that Bix pulls Cassian in two very different directions. On the one hand, it is the trauma she goes through that serves as one of Cassian's principal motivators for his work in the rebellion...it turned the Imperials from "nameless, faceless evil" to "this is now personal". When Cassian sees Bix's suffering, he is more determined than ever to carry on his missions.

But on the flip side, as time goes on Cassian worries more and more that he is just bringing further danger to Bix's front door, and his desperate desire to protect her is clashing with the danger that his work brings to both of them. This culminates in Cassian almost leaving the rebellion....which prompts Bix to leave him to let him do the work he needs to do. Its both a tragic relationship that serves as a prime character motivator for the protagonist, and the aftereffect of generating a child for Cassian that serves as his legend further augments the important of the relationship.

In comparing, while Syril and Dedra both had interesting arcs and endings, their relationship really did not augment any aspect of those arcs, it didn't change the characters in any real way, both of them could have had the same fundamental arc without any relationship screen time being shown. In a show where I'm hungry for every bit of screentime as there are so many interesting nuances to cover, that is a waste.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So perhaps you can spell out where in her acting she showed how Syril's death made her any different

It didn’t “make her different”. That’s the point. She is furious that her bungling superiors messed up her elegant plan and got her boy toy killed. But that just reenforces her opinion that she is the only competent person in the building, so she turns up to work as normal the next day.

An inability to accept fault in yourself, and therefore not change, is characteristic of evil. Plenty of real world examples of that. I think she may have based her performance on someone in particular in fact.

 

[Older Beholder]

Also it might help to compare the more productive relationship in the form of Cassian and Bix.
<snip>
In comparing, while Syril and Dedra both had interesting arcs and endings, their relationship really did not augment any aspect of those arcs, it didn't change the characters in any real way, both of them could have had the same fundamental arc without any relationship screen time being shown. In a show where I'm hungry for every bit of screentime as there are so many interesting nuances to cover, that is a waste.

You kinda answered your own question.

Their relationship mirrors, or rather it contrasts with Cassian and Bix’s relationship. That’s part of the point. It emphasises how Syrill and Dedra’s relationship is transactional, and based on personal benefit by comparison. There’s a banality to it which is also pitch perfect for the characters. Their relationship fleshes out both characters far more then if they weren’t together.

 

[Stalker0]

You kinda answered your own question.

Their relationship mirrors, or rather it contrasts with Cassian and Bix’s relationship. That’s part of the point. It emphasises how Syrill and Dedra’s relationship is transactional, and based on personal benefit by comparison. There’s a banality to it which is also pitch perfect for the characters. Their relationship fleshes out both characters far more then if they weren’t together.

shrug, imo if the relationship had not been a thing, or had just been a quick lip service, I would have the exact same perspective on the characters. We already saw the two characters as work a holics that were utterly committed to their jobs, the relationship did nothing to push that in either direction.

Whereas Cassian and Bix relationship not only drove Cassian's motivation, it was also a source of conflict for him and caused changes in his decision making.

 

[Older Beholder]

shrug, imo if the relationship had not been a thing, or had just been a quick lip service, I would have the exact same perspective on the characters. We already saw the two characters as work a holics that were utterly committed to their jobs, the relationship did nothing to push that in either direction.

The way Dedra uses Syrill wouldn't have as much impact if they weren't in a relationship.
Her treating a life partner this way tells us more about her character than if she was just using a work colleague.
Without their relationship we also get none of the dynamics between Dedra and Syrill's mother, which gave us greater insight into her character.

Whereas Cassian and Bix relationship not only drove Cassian's motivation, it was also a source of conflict for him and caused changes in his decision making.

Yes, again, the relationships between Cassian and Bix is meant to be in contrast to Dedra and Syrill.
That's the point. The positive aspects of selfless love vs the negative aspects of selfish love. Cassian and Bix's relationship is given more meaning because we see it juxtaposed with Dedra and Syrill.

All IMHO of course.

 

[chuckdee]

You kinda answered your own question.

Their relationship mirrors, or rather it contrasts with Cassian and Bix’s relationship. That’s part of the point. It emphasises how Syrill and Dedra’s relationship is transactional, and based on personal benefit by comparison. There’s a banality to it which is also pitch perfect for the characters. Their relationship fleshes out both characters far more then if they weren’t together.

I could go with that- if the last thing we saw on Gorman wasn't her crumbling to pieces. There was never any bridge between that final scene and where we see her. And it wasn't a matter of subtle acting- there just wasn't a bridge.

 

[Older Beholder]

Meanwhile, the post credit montage where we see what happened to various supporting characters was brutal.

 

[pukunui]

I could go with that- if the last thing we saw on Gorman wasn't her crumbling to pieces.

She wasn't having a panic attack because of Syril, though. I don't think she would have known he was dead by that point. She was freaking out because she'd been tricked into participating in an engineered massacre.