Star Wars Saga, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Victim]

This reminds of that discussion over in the media lounge forum about Valdemort and how the ability to kill 13 people with a curse isn't really that awesome.

The thing is, in an RPG characters are almost never without their gear, so the need to rely on a gadget doesn't seem like a big limitation (as it certainly would seem to be in any other context).

Well, the awesome stuff is force lightning, which always gives a darkside point (unlike say force grip). At the risk of thread derailment, where magic really seemed to excel was in weather control, teleportation, object destruction, mind control, memory mods and such. The ability to kill people with a magic curse (that requires direct line of sight, can miss, and doesn't seem to have that great of range) isn't all that special. But it's the delivery methods and secondary attacks where the big advantage is.

I like the STR requirement on Rapid Shot, since it prevents massive trade offs of STR for Dex, as seems to happen far too often in games based primarily around gun combat.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I have to say that this version of Star Wars does more to make ALL stats important than any other d20 game I've yet seen.

Cool. Then I'd probably use a liberal stat-buy system rather than random dice-rolling. (Though I don't know what the RAW rule is, not having the book yet.) If there's a lot of MADness going around, I don't want bad rolls to spoil that for my players.

 

[atomn]

Cool. Then I'd probably use a liberal stat-buy system rather than random dice-rolling. (Though I don't know what the RAW rule is, not having the book yet.) If there's a lot of MADness going around, I don't want bad rolls to spoil that for my players.

It says to roll 4d6, drop the lowest for stats. So they should be pretty good.

 

[drothgery]

It says to roll 4d6, drop the lowest for stats. So they should be pretty good.

... and 28-point buy is presented as an alternative.

 

[Dark Psion]

The Good:
Simplified skill system: Fewer skills, no ranks and rolling some feats like Track into skills (Tracking is a Trained use of Survival).
No dead levels: All classes and Prestige classes get something at all levels.
The Force is with you: Every PC has Force points and can use them when they need them.

The Bad:
Feats: The first PCs I made were the crew of Firefly and which one was the hardest to create? Kaylee! So many of the feats are combat oriented, creatng a non-combative PC is hard. I had to create a new feat, (Second Chance: that allows you to chose a skill that you are both trained and focused in and you can now re-roll a skill check) The feat list does need to be expanded from just combat.

The Square Book: To be honest, if I was not looking for this book, I would have walked right by it on a shelf because it does not look like a role playing book (or a WotC book).

Lack of Stuff: There are only a few vehilces, gear and iconic NPCs. Part of this is due to the smaller size of the book, but most is due to the book trying to be a Player's Handbook, Gamemasters Guide and a Campaign Guide in one book.

The Ugly:
Errata: Yeah, once again there are a lot of little mistakes in a WotC book (Surprise surprise)

Many seem to be changes in the rules that where other mentions were not updated:
Vader is trained in Mechanics, but it is not a Jedi skill.
In the sample gamming session, the Jedi Sia-Lan has 22 hit points, but on the same page (13) it says Jedi start with 30 + Con mod.
Padme has a Talent "Wanted Alive" that is not in the book.
The sample Bounty Hunter on page 283 has 4 non-heroic levels, but the Bounty Hunter PrC requires 7 heroic levels.
Cybernetic Prosthesis cause a -1 penalty to Use the Force checks, but neither Darth Vader (4 cyber limbs) and Luke Skywalker (1 cyber hand) have any penalties in their stats.
Also, Luke's stats are for episode VI, but do not include Force Grip that he used on the Gamorean.

Overall, I like it!
D&D can be overcomplicated for those just starting to game, so a simplified game like this is better to introduce new people to gaming. The one thing that will be life or death of the Saga system will be support books. Personally I would liked to have seen a PHB, DMG and Campaign guide, but we will see how the next two books do; The Force Unleashed and Starships of the Galaxy (See Amazon.com )


And BTW, let me be the first to call for a Gamma World Saga System book. We got Droids, vehicles and psychic powers here, just make adjustments for Mutations and defects(if your Defect points exceed your Constitution, your PC become unplayable).

 

[Armistice]

As for the Rapid Shot requiring STR 13, and Rapid Strike Dexuiring Dex 13, those are not typos, according to Gary Sarli. The reasoning is (1) the need for STR to control recoil and the need for DEX for accurate placement of a second, quick, strike, and (2) it's a game balance idea to get characters to spread out their scores a bit rather than simply concentrating all their attention in one ability score.

I have to say that this version of Star Wars does more to make ALL stats important than any other d20 game I've yet seen.

Spycraft. Just go Saga and I'm impressed. I wish they'd taken the Feat Tree organization from Spycraft, though. As it is, there are way too many general combat feats and not enough feats of any other kind. Some unholy meshing of the two systems is what I'm eventually going to playing with as my flavor of d20. I'm going to play Saga in Vanilla form for a while to understand it's strengths and then I'll take strip the innovation to fuel Spycraft or vice/versa.

 

[drothgery]

The Bad:
Feats: The first PCs I made were the crew of Firefly and which one was the hardest to create? Kaylee! So many of the feats are combat oriented, creatng a non-combative PC is hard. I had to create a new feat, (Second Chance: that allows you to chose a skill that you are both trained and focused in and you can now re-roll a skill check) The feat list does need to be expanded from just combat.

Yeah; I've got a mostly-done conversion of a PBP NPC who's a pure noncombatant, and she ended up with Skill Focus five times and Skill Training once -- as an 18 int Human Noble/Scoundrel who started as Noble (and so has 11 trained skills to start with!). Having said that, dumping the +2/+2 feats in favor of just using Skill Focus was certainly the right call, and there were very, very few other non-combat feats in RCR.

 

[Felon]

The Good:
The Bad:
Feats: The first PCs I made were the crew of Firefly and which one was the hardest to create? Kaylee! So many of the feats are combat oriented, creatng a non-combative PC is hard. I had to create a new feat, (Second Chance: that allows you to chose a skill that you are both trained and focused in and you can now re-roll a skill check) The feat list does need to be expanded from just combat.

Yeah; I've got a mostly-done conversion of a PBP NPC who's a pure noncombatant, and she ended up with Skill Focus five times and Skill Training once -- as an 18 int Human Noble/Scoundrel who started as Noble (and so has 11 trained skills to start with!). Having said that, dumping the +2/+2 feats in favor of just using Skill Focus was certainly the right call, and there were very, very few other non-combat feats in RCR.

That is relative to the comment I made earlier. I don't think they regard non-combative PC's as being very Star-Warsy, or fun to play--which probably would displease R2-D2 and C3P0 to no end if they were to hear that.

 

[Skywalker]

That is relative to the comment I made earlier. I don't think they regard non-combative PC's as being very Star-Warsy, or fun to play--which probably would displease R2-D2 and C3P0 to no end if they were to hear that.

In pulp, such as Star Wars, even the non-combative PCs should be capable in combat when push comes to shove. The further you get away from how Star Wars is presented, you will find it harder to use Saga to cover all the options.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

That is relative to the comment I made earlier. I don't think they regard non-combative PC's as being very Star-Warsy, or fun to play--which probably would displease R2-D2 and C3P0 to no end if they were to hear that.

There are, I think, two distinct camps of (potential and current) Star Wars RPG'ers. One wants to 'play the movies', the other wants to 'play the universe'. The new edition seems weighed heavily in favor of the former. Hopefully future source books will, er, bring balance to the Force as it were, and allow those that want a more immersive experience that option.