Star Wars Saga, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[MoogleEmpMog]

I haven't read the Force section so I'm not making allegations of class imbalance, but what does everyone think about balancing Force users with normal folk? I liked in the d20 version that the Jedi took damage in order to use their Force powers. So there was the decision of doing something fantastic that a normal schlub couldn't do, but weakening yourself in return. Without a good balancing system, it seems unfair that a Soldier gets the same amount of feats and talents that a Jedi does but can only do mundane things instead of use fantastical Force powers. Or are the Soldier's feats and talents that much greater to balance the Jedi's overall effectiveness?

Jedi get talents that allow them to use the Force to achieve things other characters would have to use multiple skills for, and they're better at lightsaber combat. In terms of pure Force-using oomph, however, they get only a very small advantage over the other classes: Force Sensitive as a bonus feat.

If I were setting out to create an exceptional Force user who wasn't much of a fighter, I would be inclined to use a Noble rather than a Jedi as the base character (FWIW, this is basically how Palpatine is statted up) and then at 7th level go into Force Adept.

For that matter, you could create a very effective Force-using warrior taking just Soldier levels and spending your level-based feats on Force training.

On the flip side, you could make a Jedi who had no Force powers beyond the basic abilities of the Use the Force skill who was just as effective as a heavy Force user by virtue of being an exceptional lightsaber duellist. Technically, you could use the Jedi class for a pure lightsaber duellist who didn't even have Use the Force as a trained skill, much less Force powers.

I'd say the Force powers are no stronger than the 'mundane' heroic abilities, especially when it comes to combat. They work out well for Jedi because the Jedi class confers expertise in a melee weapon, and Force powers allow the Jedi to a) survive long enough to get to melee, b) get to melee faster and c) have some ranged abilities to fall back on in a pinch.

 

[Victim]

Scouts don't get Extra Second Wind. They get Shake it Off which also requires Endurance trained (and a 13 Con, unfortunately).

 

[Felon]

Scouts don't get Extra Second Wind. They get Shake it Off which also requires Endurance trained (and a 13 Con, unfortunately).

Ah, gotcha. I lent my book out, so can someone tell me if Extra Second Wind has requirements?

I figure the Con's not a huge deal, unless you're considering a Con-penalized race.

 

[Victim]

Ah, gotcha. I lent my book out, so can someone tell me if Extra Second Wind has requirements?

I figure the Con's not a huge deal, unless you're considering a Con-penalized race.

Extra Second Wind also requires trained Endurance.

Sure, 13 Con doesn't sound like that much, especially coming from DnD. But the 3x starting HD at level 1 that only include Con once makes the extra HP from Con a far less significant portion of a character's HP, especially at low-mid levels. The Jedi I'm playing has 8 Con and still has a goodly sum of HP. Plus there are requirements like Rapid Shot's 13 STR.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Extra Second Wind also requires trained Endurance.

Sure, 13 Con doesn't sound like that much, especially coming from DnD. But the 3x starting HD at level 1 that only include Con once makes the extra HP from Con a far less significant portion of a character's HP, especially at low-mid levels. The Jedi I'm playing has 8 Con and still has a goodly sum of HP. Plus there are requirements like Rapid Shot's 13 STR.

13 Str? I hope that's a typo. Otherwise I'd really like to hear the rationalization for that. Is ranged combat now Strength-based somehow?!

 

[Felon]

Mind Trick is handy, but some of its uses overlap with other skills and talents - like Deception or the Noble fear talent. Force Slam isn't bad, but a mundane character might simply toss a grenade or hose down an area with autofire when he needs an area attack.

This reminds of that discussion over in the media lounge forum about Valdemort and how the ability to kill 13 people with a curse isn't really that awesome.

The thing is, in an RPG characters are almost never without their gear, so the need to rely on a gadget doesn't seem like a big limitation (as it certainly would seem to be in any other context).

 

[Felon]

13 Str? I hope that's a typo. Otherwise I'd really like to hear the rationalization for that. Is ranged combat now Strength-based somehow?!

Can't confirm or deny the Str requirement, but I suppose they're taking recoil into account? I kinda like the idea. Strength has always been treated like a dump stat for gunslingers in games (and Dexterity is invariably maxed-out), for obvious reasons, but gunslingers in fiction are usually not featherweights.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Can't confirm or deny the Str requirement, but I suppose they're taking recoil into account? I kinda like the idea. Strength has always been treated like a dump stat for gunslingers in games (and Dexterity is invariably maxed-out), for obvious reasons, but gunslingers in fiction are usually not featherweights.

True, and fair enough. It's just very antithetical to d20 as I understand it.

 

[Felon]

Extra Second Wind also requires trained Endurance.

Ah, I don't feel so bad about mixing them up then. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Henry]

As for the Rapid Shot requiring STR 13, and Rapid Strike Dexuiring Dex 13, those are not typos, according to Gary Sarli. The reasoning is (1) the need for STR to control recoil and the need for DEX for accurate placement of a second, quick, strike, and (2) it's a game balance idea to get characters to spread out their scores a bit rather than simply concentrating all their attention in one ability score.

I have to say that this version of Star Wars does more to make ALL stats important than any other d20 game I've yet seen.