[Star Wars] SECR Preview #5 is up

[nerfherder]

I get a mental image of a guy with a grenade, who wants to hurl the grenade from behind cover to kill the dozens of storm troopers who are laying down suppressive fire at him. However, because he has a -20 penalty to his attack roll, the grenade misses completely and hits the guy in the head.

Sounds like one of my Millenium's End games - player yells "fire in the hold" as he dives into the cast-iron bathtub, leaving the other player characters to take the blast protected only by a hotel's internal wall...

 

[masshysteria]

Wow, I'm seriously thinking a pre-order is in store for this game and I hate pre-ordering!

I like everything I've seen. The new shield rules sound great and I really like the way combat has been streamlined. I'm only disappointed that they didn't mention dual wielding rules. It sounds like they still have iterative attacks (see Preview #4).

Don't forget there is more goodness in Jedi Counseling 102 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20070502jc102):

Sounds like you only pick your trained skills at first level. If you want more trained skills you need to use the Skill Training feat. Fortunately bonus feats are gained every even level with normal feats at 1st and every level divisible by 3.

Talents are gained every odd level and the trees have the following names:
* Jedi: Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, Jedi Sentinel, Lightsaber Combat
* Noble: Influence, Inspiration, Leadership, Lineage
* Scoundrel: Fortune, Misfortune, Slicer, Spacer
* Scout: Awareness, Camouflage, Fringer, Survivor
* Soldier: Armor Specialist, Brawler, Commando, Weapon Specialist

 

[Sir Brennen]

Back to Aid Another...will this really be used? I think I'd rather try to take the target out than just give him a -2 to his next attack. I'll have to try it to see.

To put it in D&D terms, it gives the Dex 8 wizard with a crossbow who's low on spells something useful to do Would you rather have a 100% chance of having an effect on the combat with Suppressive Fire or just hope you roll a 20? I have no idea if there is an equivalant low BAB class in Star Wars, but sustitute a lower level character who's at -5 on the Wound Track, and you have the same basic concept.

Firing a short burst (as real-world soldiers are trained to do) at someone increases the likelihood of hitting and the chance of hitting with more than one round. The Burst feat reduces your chance to hit. And before anyone says it, yes I know that SWSE isn't trying to model reality, it's trying to model the Star Wars films. I'm just mentally noting adjustments I'll have to make when I steal ideas for my modern game

In modern/futuristic games, there always seems to be ranged weapon rules for short bursts and full-auto, with the former being "more accurate" and the latter simply placing quantity over quality of targeted shots. Short bursts are modeled in d20 by the Rapid Shot feat (a feat, since, as you mentioned, one is trained to do it), while the abstracted auto-fire rules are interesting in that you still cause damage to every single target in the area, even if it's just 1/2 for some (or all) of them. So the -5 isn't really a decreased chance to hit for auto-fire, just a lowered probability of scoring a well-aimed direct hit.

 

[nerfherder]

Don't forget there is more goodness in Jedi Counseling 102 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20070502jc102):

Yes, there's even a thread in this forum about it
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=195387

 

[nerfherder]

In modern/futuristic games, there always seems to be ranged weapon rules for short bursts and full-auto, with the former being "more accurate" and the latter simply placing quantity over quality of targeted shots. Short bursts are modeled in d20 by the Rapid Shot feat (a feat, since, as you mentioned, one is trained to do it), while the abstracted auto-fire rules are interesting in that you still cause damage to every single target in the area, even if it's just 1/2 for some (or all) of them. So the -5 isn't really a decreased chance to hit for auto-fire, just a lowered probability of scoring a well-aimed direct hit.

Oh, I have no problems with the basic autofire rules - area effect damage to hit points nicely represents characters trying to dodge and duck out of the way. I like this

I was talking about the Burst Fire feat that gives extra damage to an individual for a reduced chance to hit. To accurately model how the real world works (or at least how I've been told it works by some ex-soldiers and marines) there should be an increase to the chance to hit, and a chance of extra damage. I'm not too worried about it, though - I'm sure it works well in the Star Wars game, and I can adjust it for a modern game.

 

[masshysteria]

Yes, there's even a thread in this forum about it
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=195387

Doh!

 

[masshysteria]

I was talking about the Burst Fire feat that gives extra damage to an individual for a reduced chance to hit. To accurately model how the real world works (or at least how I've been told it works by some ex-soldiers and marines) there should be an increase to the chance to hit, and a chance of extra damage. I'm not too worried about it, though - I'm sure it works well in the Star Wars game, and I can adjust it for a modern game.

In your realistic example, you are firing two or three rounds in a burst. Proper training and experience can lead to making all those rounds count. But, according to the preview, you are consuming 10 rounds. By firing ten rounds in an automatic mode, it seems to follow more of the "spray and pray" method, which means reduced accuracy makes sense.

So if you are going to translate this to a modern game, you'd probably need a different feat to simulate a two shot burst.

But most importantly, it works for the game.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Here's a summary:

• Stun & Ion damage - exceeding the Threshold results in 2 steps down the condition track, but then only half damage is done to hit points. Neat. Stun is vs biological targets and ion vs droids, vehicles, and cybernetically enhanced creatures...
  

Oh, good.

My group was never, ever happy about the stun rules, especially when things like the stun-hose from A&EG and grenade launchers showed up. While we willfully used things like the stun-grenade & frag-grenade combo ("I'd give you a Dark Side point if you hadn't said that you were doing this to get their guns."), it seemed awfully cheesy.

I do like that they're going with a more d20 Modern feel to it.

Brad

 

[JohnSnow]

In your realistic example, you are firing two or three rounds in a burst. Proper training and experience can lead to making all those rounds count. But, according to the preview, you are consuming 10 rounds. By firing ten rounds in an automatic mode, it seems to follow more of the "spray and pray" method, which means reduced accuracy makes sense.

So if you are going to translate this to a modern game, you'd probably need a different feat to simulate a two shot burst.

But most importantly, it works for the game.

Something like this one, from the d20 Modern SRD, perhaps? Note, especially, the special line on weapons with a 3-round burst setting.

Burst Fire
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Advanced Firearms Proficiency.
Benefit: When using an automatic firearm with at least five bullets available, the character may fire a short burst as a single attack against a single target. The character receives a –4 penalty on the attack roll, but deals +2 dice of damage.
Firing a burst expends five bullets and can only be done if the weapon has five bullets in it.
Normal: Autofire uses ten shots, targets a 10-feet-by-10-feet area, and can’t be aimed at a specific target. Without this feat, if a character attempts an autofire attack at a specific target, it simply counts as a normal attack and all the extra bullets are wasted.
Special: If the firearm has a three-round burst setting, firing a burst expends three bullets instead of five and can be used if the weapon has only three bullets in it.

If memory serves, there are more advanced autofire feats in some of the stuff the Game Mechanics put out.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Yeah, I think that's what Nerf was referring to... the -4 penalty is what contradicts conventional wisdom. The idea is you can get a few bullets out of the barrel before recoil kicks in, thus increasing the odds of hitting a target with more than one bullet.

Has the Burst Fire feat been mentioned in a SW preview yet?