Starlock: AC too low to be playable?

[Stalker0]

In one of my gaming groups, we have a star warlock in the group. He has a high con and charisma, but only a mediocre int.

As such, his AC is abysmal (18 at 7th level) while the rest of the party is in the 23 or higher range.

Now he tries to get concealment whenever possible to tone that up, but time and time again he is just pounded for damage and is requiring a lot of the healing.

We as a group have been trying to help him, but there isn't a lot we can do. He doesn't have the strength for heavier armor, can't get a higher int without sacrificing attack bonuses, doesn't have the strength for a shield...etc.

I'm curious to hear if other people have had the same issues with starlocks.

The fey warlock can have int as a secondary stat, so can the infernal one while getting the benefits of a massive con.


We can considered giving them chain proficiency out of the box, or letting them use their con instead of int for AC. So curious what others have seen.

 

[Eldorian]

Yeah, more and more I'm starting to think that the star pact warlock, the paladin, the cleric, and other classes with two primary stats are a bad design.

There are a couple houserules solutions. Rewrite the classes to have only one primary (suggest Cha for lock, Cha for paladin, and Wis for cleric), and the other is to change the level 4, 8, 14, 18, 24, 28 stat bumps to boosting all 6 stats. The last one also removed the so called "nads" problem. Or do both, it's not overkill.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

He has a high con and charisma, but only a mediocre int.

This is your issue right here, and the issue with starlocks in general. The starlock in my game had issues with neither his con nor his charisma being high enough that he could reliably hit things; your player has apparently dodged this issue by pumping both con and charisma up to nominal levels at the expense of every other stat. I'm guessing his stat array was something like 17 16 10 10 10 9?

In both cases, our players made the fundamental mistake of paying attention to the PHB's suggested stat distribution. It's basically impossible for a class to be competitive if the primary attribute for their powers is a 50/50 split between two stats.

Paladin is fine if you only take charisma or only take strength powers, and Star Pact warlock is fine if you only take charisma or only take constitution powers. The Class Acts: Star Pact Warlock went a long way towards giving starlocks the ability to get a star pact power of their stat at most every level, and I'm pretty sure that's why it was the first Class Acts. I'd suggest you let your player rechoose his original stats, focusing on one of the two stats, and reselect his powers that were based on the other stat.

The only other serious issue you might face is that there's still only one star-pact at-will attack, and starlocks are locked into it, which is an issue if they're going charisma powers. If your player wants to play a charisma starlock, I'd suggest you let him take eyebite as a replacement power, or let him use his charisma instead of his constitution for dire radiance.

I've personally played a charisma starlock, and it's both viable and fun if you've got your stats sorted out.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Presumably it can be helped at 11th level (when his 12 STR would hopefully be upgraded to 13, allowing him access to heavy armor and light shield proficiencies.)

I'm assuming he went with a 16/16/12/12 array with the latter two in STR and INT. If you are going with 16's (pre-stat mods) to CHA and CON, you pretty much HAVE to put a 13 into STR. It's basically having to give up Int ENTIRELY if you want to go that route. I think the "best" solution is for Arcane Power/Dragon magazine to introduce enough CON and CHA based powers (including a star pact cha-based at-will, and a star pact con-based paragon path) so that you can go with puely Con based or Cha based powers.

Perhaps a feat that makes a starpact type warlock similar to the PHBII classes, something like a starpact requirement and it allows you to add the LOWER of your CHA or CON bonus instead of Dex/Int.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The problem with the starlock is the need for two stats.

Either get your DM to agree to change all starlock power to one stat one or choose one stat and only choose power from that stat.

So if you are a starlock with high CON (and the at-will is high con), then only pick CON based starlock power and pick infernal power when no CON starlock power is available. I prefer solution one, but if your DM is a purist, solution 2 works and is by the book.

Then you dump the other primary stat and pump INT instead.

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I don't really have a problem with the dual primary stat design because normally you choose one and stick with it. I see it as two class in one, not an excuse to try a weakened mix of the two.

The Starlock is the only one who is really in a pickle and he seems to be somekind of weird experiment. I expect there will be a solution in Arcane Power.

 

[Eldorian]

I don't really have a problem with the dual primary stat design because normally you choose one and stick with it. I see it as two class in one, not an excuse to try a weakened mix of the two.

Two half classes in one. Probably after Arcane and Divine Power they'll be two whole classes in one. But right now it sucks to have so few options once you've picked, say, STR for your paladin.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Two half classes in one. Probably after Arcane and Divine Power they'll be two whole classes in one. But right now it sucks to have so few options once you've picked, say, STR for your paladin.

The fact that it would need multiclassing or picking lower level powers to have a STR power at every level is quite odd for the paladin, and the at-will is con based, all paragon powers are cha based thing with the starlock (who now has 2 star pact paragon paths, both charisma based). The ranger found a way of doing the balancing act, in part since a number of powers could be used for either build.

 

[FireLance]

Actually, I'd say that the star pact boon goes some way towards alleviating the need for a star pact warlock to maintain two very high ability scores. Add Improved Fate of the Void, and he's basically making an attack roll at +2 or more in the round after a cursed opponent is dropped to 0 hit points or less. You can focus on two high ability scores if you want, but it's less painful for you to maintain three ability scores at moderately high levels if you're a star pact warlock.

EDIT: That said, I personally do find the disparity between a character's two most important stats and his third and fourth ranked stats to be rather jarring at high levels. So, I'm considering a house rule that at 8th, 18th, and 28th levels, a character can add +1 to four ability scores instead of two.

 

[On Puget Sound]

My wife's tiefling starlock (level 2) has CON 16, INT 15, CHA 18 and plans to bump INT at level 4 (only), then CON and CHA from there on out. AC has not been much of an issue for her because our party contains 3 defenders and she always moves 3 squares to gather shadows. Marking plus concealment gives her a +4 AC bonus almost any time she is targeted, which is not often. I don't know what will happen at higher levels.

 

[Baumi]

There was already some good advice here but it requires to rebuild the character in midgame.

I think the easiest way is to give him some sort of pact-heavy-armor that allows Warlocks to use it even if they don't have the proficiency. It could even look like a robe/leather just with the stat of a chainmail...

This would make it quite easy to "fix" him and next time someone makes a starlock you already learned the pitfalls of this and can give out advice without the need of a custom item