Starting Campaign - Monk Class

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I came up with a lot of reasons why it was unbalanced and arguments to support my reasoning.

In this thread?

Then I realised that if you think it's balanced now, there's really nothing I can do that will convince you otherwise.

So... meh.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do in your game, or even to convince you of anything. I honestly don't mind if you don't use them - they're optional, after all! I was merely reporting my own experience.
 

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Truename

First Post
I'm not trying to tell you what to do in your game, or even to convince you of anything. I honestly don't mind if you don't use them - they're optional, after all! I was merely reporting my own experience.

And no offense meant to Kzach, I find reports of actual play experience more credible than theorycrafting, particularly when it comes to 4e.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
And no offense meant to Kzach, I find reports of actual play experience more credible than theorycrafting, particularly when it comes to 4e.

Up until recently I was in four regular D&D games and played irregular LFR events both on and offline. This amounted to about 4-6 games per week.

By your logic, whatever I say should be the word of God.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
OK, let's head the sarcasm and low-level hostility off at the pass, eh? This isn't the "prove I am right" forum, nor is it the "get the last word" forum.
 

Blackbrrd

First Post
I don't have a problem with making interesting feats, but I do have a problem if they're overpowered.

And those feats are not only overpowered, but freebies. Even if they were balanced, giving them away for free is overpowered.

Consider the Blade of the Resistance feat. Everyone would take that because there's no reason not to. So then you have five people doing +10 points of damage every round.

Hell, that's unbalanced even at epic.

Blade of the Resistance
[Gate Pass]
Fed up with Ragesian and Shahalesti oppression,
you wage a discreet war against them.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Insight
checks. Once per encounter you can select an
intelligent creature who has dealt damage to you
or your allies as your preferred foe. Until the end
of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to your
damage rolls against your preferred foe.
The foe you select need not have dealt
the damage during the current encounter; a
previous encounter will suffice.
Special: You gain this feat as a bonus feat if
your character begins at 1st level affiliated with
the Gate Pass resistance.

If every character assigns the same foe as the preferred foe and get a +2 damage bonus vs this opponent. 5 characters doing this get a +2 damage bonus each. A single target can usually take 4-5 hits before going down. High powered, sure it is. The feats that grant wizards +str to damage is much more high-powered. ;)

+10 damage total for the whole party at epic is hardly noticeable.

Personally I won't allow any of the feats, but I will probably do some more "personal" customization of the characters that's more high-powered.
 

EugeneZ

First Post
Blade of the Resistance is definitely overpowered. +2 to damage against nearly any opponent as a free background feat goes beyond the very limited scope that background feats exist to fill in 4e. Compare to any of the background feats in PHB2, or Scales of War, or Forgotten Realms. I have yet to see a background feat this powerful.

That said, I'm completely with Morrus and RangerWickett on this.

Morrus said:
We've not found it unbalancing anything, and we're into Paragon now.

He didn't say anything about it being overpowered or not, which, at the risk of putting words in your mouth, is what I think you're really driving at.

Several of my players took this feat as well, and I hesitated allowing it, but with the mindset that its a tasteful, fun feat, I did so and it's paid off: when a player uses it in the heat of battle, particularly when fighting Ragesians, it tends to highlight the character's anger and aggression towards the targetted party.

The +2 to damage, while mechanically overpowered, does not affect our game in any meaningful way. As with most rules, your experience may vary, of course -- but there are better courses of action than simply banning the feat. For example, consider selecting the target of the extra damage to be a minor action, or even a standard. Players may hesitate to take it then, but at least you're not forcing them to avoid taking feats that are in the Player's Guide.

Another way to balance it would be to make it a daily power. None of this is necessary in my game because it's not unbalancing.

Regarding monks, we had a player who was a monk in Gate Pass, studying abroad, as it were. It worked out quite well. Considering the Monastery of the Two Winds is a major part of the campaign world, and with all the information RangerWickett provided above, I think a monk character is one of the best ways to add some flavor to a character in Burning Sky.

I'm starting #4 (Banquet) now, and so far I haven't seen any instance where having a monk would be troublesome.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
He didn't say anything about it being overpowered or not, which, at the risk of putting words in your mouth, is what I think you're really driving at.

Absolutely; they're certainly powerful feats. Nobody's denying that. However, we've not experienced any unbalancing of our game due to them.

We've also not found that it's a dead cert that everybody takes BotR. We have a full mix of the background feats in our group. If that's really an issue in your game, I guess you could tell your players that they can each choose one background feat and they must all be different.

Or disallow them. They don't particularly affect anything. They're optional for a reason. I like having 'em personally.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
I took a different route.

I disallowed any of the feats for balance reasons.

But at the point where Buron asks the players if they want to join the resistance, I gave them a modified version of Blade of the Resistance for free.

Mine was a +2 power bonus to Diplomacy checks against anyone sympathetic to the cause of the resistance.

In addition, as a minor action once per encounter, they can assist a comrade with this feat by singling out an enemy and granting their ally a once off +2 damage bonus against that target.

It retains the flavour of the feat, rewards players for being heroes, and isn't overpowered.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
+10 damage total for the whole party at epic is hardly noticeable.

Players will pretty quickly clue in that targeting separate mobs each maximises the damage bonus.

Say 5 standard monsters with 40 hit points each doing an average of 8 points of damage a round. +2 damage ups the average to 10, so 4 hits on each monster.

Across the entire group that's an extra 40 points of damage done in that combat. And that's just at 1st-level. By epic, that +2 is contributing about a hundred or so extra points of damage per combat.
 

Daern

Explorer
Regarding monks, we had a player who was a monk in Gate Pass, studying abroad, as it were. It worked out quite well. Considering the Monastery of the Two Winds is a major part of the campaign world, and with all the information RangerWickett provided above, I think a monk character is one of the best ways to add some flavor to a character in Burning Sky.

I'm starting #4 (Banquet) now, and so far I haven't seen any instance where having a monk would be troublesome.

I agree about the monks.
In my campaign the background feats fell victim to the curse of the CB.

Also, I would love to hear about your xp in Shelter! perhaps in another thread...
 

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