Starting Campaign - Monk Class

Admiral Caine

First Post
Like many folks I've decided to start a WotBS campaign. I'm setting the ground rules on races and classes. My approach might be a little stricter than some GMs.. but I like to avoid realy wacky starting races and classes in a new campaign. The reason being that at first level I want the focus to be on the adventure and not the radical differences between a PC and everybody else. Later in the campaign, if a character needs to be replaced I tend to loosen up and all be more forgiving towards more provocative ideas. By then the players have a good idea of the setting and are encountering unusual NPCs.

Sorry for the long prelude, here's my question:

The background from the Players Guide seems really tolerant towards the idea of PC Monks. However I know the conversion to 4E started before WOTC released the Monk (or it was around the same time).

There is very little info on the Monastary of the Two Winds available at first. Will it be a problem to have PC Monks from there?

Secondly, the two Heroic Tier Feats that relate to being an Initiate to the Winds.. Specifically the Initiate of the East Wind. I'm a little concerned that it might be a balanced feat for any class that meets it's requirements except for the monk- but since almost every attack a monk makes is unarmed to start with, it's an almost permanent 1d6 lightning damage across the board for almost every attack.

I could be wrong, that could be no big deal. However if anyone has any thoughts on it...

... and allowing monk PCs in general.. I'd be most appreciative.
 

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Kzach

Banned
Banned
I could be wrong, that could be no big deal. However if anyone has any thoughts on it...

... and allowing monk PCs in general.. I'd be most appreciative.

Personally I didn't allow any of the feats or powers. I didn't feel any of them added to the story but many of them were overpowered and not only overpowered, but free.

Having said that, as a player pointed out to me, the campaign itself is geared towards an epic, high-powered play-style. Which is why I've added a modified version of Blade of the Resistance for free to the PC's (they had to EARN it though, through their good deeds).

The monk itself isn't a problem though and I'm struggling to understand why you would think it is, or for that matter, why any of the races should be banned either. A githzerei monk is awesome.
 

Admiral Caine

First Post
Personally I didn't allow any of the feats or powers. I didn't feel any of them added to the story but many of them were overpowered and not only overpowered, but free.

That is useful feedback and something I appreciate hearing. I'm familiar enough with 4E to play it (and hopefully run it), but I don't always spot the issues ahead of time.

Would you feel differently if the backgrounds only allowed the players to "buy" the feat (per normal character creation rules) instead of receiving them for free? Or do you still feel that they're overpowered? Any thoughts on which ones are better than others?

How about the rituals and powers?

And please, opinions from other posters are welcome too! I'd like to hear about your experiences.

Having said that, as a player pointed out to me, the campaign itself is geared towards an epic, high-powered play-style. Which is why I've added a modified version of Blade of the Resistance for free to the PC's (they had to EARN it though, through their good deeds).

Would you care to post the modification you made?

The monk itself isn't a problem though

::nod:: I was mostly concerned about those backgrounds and feats.

Does any one know if a future chapter would give me some background on the monastary? Other than just the name itself? If a player decides to play one I want to be able to describe it a little.

I just realized I might have the 3.5 PDFs when they were on sales for a $1.00 here at EnWorld sometime ago. I might be able to mine that for details.

I'm struggling to understand why you would think it is, or for that matter, why any of the races should be banned either. A githzerei monk is awesome.

Spoiler text below.

:erm: It's a matter of personal taste and GM style. I'm going to answer, but please understand that this isn't part of my question or even something I feel I'm going to change my mind about. I think 'banned' is a little heavier word than I would use. I might be a little green to 4E, but not to GMing itself. Sometimes a player comes up with a wonderfully creative backstory for an unusual character and it really adds to the game. At other times you get an exotic character just for the sake of being exotic, and it doesn't add to the story but detracts from it as the setting itself buckles to try to rationalize this player character hero.

This is not hard and fast rule for me, or even universal from GM to GM. I do find it easier to insert an unusual character later in the campaign. Finally, I wouldn't flatly turn down ANY proposal, I'd give it a fair hearing first.. if the player could sell me on it I'd allow it.

Respectfully, if this is really discussion worthy I'd like to see it in another thread. I'm mostly interested in potential background problems (like overpowered feats), and how to help characters with backgrounds that fit in with the setting smoothly.
 


The Monastery of Two Winds is headed by two brothers, Longinus (of the West Wind) and Pilus (of the East Wind). West wind monks focus on grace, insight, and defense, while east wind monks train for swift agility and offensive power, with the power to channel ki into lightning.

[sblock]Assuming nothing changes in the 4e version, Pilus has a big chip on his shoulder, because he has watched militant nations like Ragesia conquer and destroy too many times. He has learned to harness the powers of the elements, and he's creating a doomsday weapon -- a colossal living airship, capable of causing storms, earthquakes, and tidal waves, and large enough to carry an army of its own.

He has set up an alliance with Ragesia to keep their eyes off him as he finalizes his pet project. Meanwhile, he has won the adulation of the weak-willed ruler of Ostalin, and when the time is right the armies of Ostalin will board his flying leviathan and lay waste to the capitals of the world, ensuring that no nation survives with enough strength to oppose him. He basically plans to keep kicking over any anthills that get too big -- any nation that tries to conquer a neighbor, he intends to crush.

Yes, the plan would never actually achieve what he wants, because he's just sowing more chaos, which will hardly foster peaceful coexistence. But he wants to topple tyrants, and this is how he justifies it.

His brother Longinus doesn't know what his brother is up to. He just thinks Pilus is tinkering in his own laboratory in a nearby valley; he knows of his brother's fascination with biomancy and monster crafting, and Pilus makes sure to hint at enough minor bad things he's doing, like experimenting on criminals, so that his brother will focus his attention on those, and miss the fact that Pilus has been crafting a super weapon.

Generally the monks are peaceful, though the east wind monks tend a bit more to showmanship, with duels to establish who's toughest. Most live in isolation on their mountaintop, but I figure a few new applicants every year come from distant nations, and perhaps more now as they flee the Ragesian scourge.

Some monks come to learn, but not to stay, and whenever Pilus finds someone who has a fondness for a particular element, he tries to earn that person's loyalty. For instance Lee, in adventure 3, has a fondness for water. If he ever meets Katrina, he'll probably try to recruit her too.

And Pilus no doubt has agents out scouting for him.[/sblock]
 

Admiral Caine

First Post
Thanks Ryan! That's a big help!

I think I'm going to go through the Heroic Feats and just compare them to the one in the Core Books and make sure there is a degree of parity.
 

I wasn't involved in the 4e WotBS rule writing, but in my honest opinion, 4e core feats are boring as dust. A little power boost would be fine with me if it makes things fun.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
I wasn't involved in the 4e WotBS rule writing, but in my honest opinion, 4e core feats are boring as dust. A little power boost would be fine with me if it makes things fun.

I don't have a problem with making interesting feats, but I do have a problem if they're overpowered.

And those feats are not only overpowered, but freebies. Even if they were balanced, giving them away for free is overpowered.

Consider the Blade of the Resistance feat. Everyone would take that because there's no reason not to. So then you have five people doing +10 points of damage every round.

Hell, that's unbalanced even at epic.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I don't have a problem with making interesting feats, but I do have a problem if they're overpowered.

And those feats are not only overpowered, but freebies. Even if they were balanced, giving them away for free is overpowered.

Consider the Blade of the Resistance feat. Everyone would take that because there's no reason not to. So then you have five people doing +10 points of damage every round.

Hell, that's unbalanced even at epic.

We've not found it unbalancing anything, and we're into Paragon now.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
We've not found it unbalancing anything, and we're into Paragon now.

I came up with a lot of reasons why it was unbalanced and arguments to support my reasoning. Then I realised that if you think it's balanced now, there's really nothing I can do that will convince you otherwise.

So... meh.
 

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