Starting Shackled City AP and need advice
- Thread starter Gregor
- Start date
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Our 4-player 25 point buy group consistsof a Ranger, Bard, Fighter and Cleric. We used special house rules (since we started with only 3 players) giving us all +2 skill points and 2 bonus class skills (and a extra ability, like Fearless level/minutes per day). We are near the end of the Campaign.
So far I can tell you: Having a Bard is great. He is an extreme force multiplier. With the Ranger and the Fighter we had two characters that benefited from this ability greatly.
The Bard basically adds at least between 5% to 15 % to the average damage of the group by just spending one action (starting Inspire Courage) during the whole combat. On top of that, he fires spells like Haste or Rage to buff us even further.
Aside from that, most magic items go directly to him (unless the Cleric or Ranger can use them) - with a maxed Use Magic Device (at least I think it is maxed, maybe he doesn't need to
) it is quite effective.
Extra Music and especially Lingering Song are vital for him - start singing once, the effects last the whole combat, and he can concentrate on using the occassional Bard spell or one of his magic items.
He rarely engages in melee or ranged combat and concentrates on using spells and magic items.
He later picked up Leadership to add some Combat Power to the group (a Barbarian cohort).
In your group, the Bard would probably directly boost the Fighter, Barbarian and the Rogue in combat, and (once buffed) the Cleric. I think a Bard will be a vital asset. A further melee warrior (like a Paladin) won't add much, and the various meelees would just step on each others toes (quite literally).
That said, if you usually enjoy playing a melee fighter (or even a Paladin especially), that might be a nice choice. If you love Clerics, a further Cleric never hurts (but ensure that you two have sufficient different Gods and Domains - this allows for more versatiliy of the group and for a clearer distinction between you two).
Obviously, a Bard will also be useful in all non-combat situations. Bardic Knowledge (or the new PHB II Bardic Jack-of-all-Trades-Feature-what-was-its-name) should also be very useful. The social skills will work a lot better with the Bard than the Paladin (Paladin has only Diplomacy and Sense Motive, but a bard can also pick up Bluff, Gather Information and Knowledge (Local), which will also aid in non-straight-forward or honest dealings )
Oh, and don't waste skill points on multiple Perform skills - Singing is enough. (I believe the Complete Adventurer also offers the Feat Versatile Performer, allowing you to spread your perform skill for other instruments)
So far I can tell you: Having a Bard is great. He is an extreme force multiplier. With the Ranger and the Fighter we had two characters that benefited from this ability greatly.
The Bard basically adds at least between 5% to 15 % to the average damage of the group by just spending one action (starting Inspire Courage) during the whole combat. On top of that, he fires spells like Haste or Rage to buff us even further.
Aside from that, most magic items go directly to him (unless the Cleric or Ranger can use them) - with a maxed Use Magic Device (at least I think it is maxed, maybe he doesn't need to
) it is quite effective.Extra Music and especially Lingering Song are vital for him - start singing once, the effects last the whole combat, and he can concentrate on using the occassional Bard spell or one of his magic items.
He rarely engages in melee or ranged combat and concentrates on using spells and magic items.
He later picked up Leadership to add some Combat Power to the group (a Barbarian cohort).
In your group, the Bard would probably directly boost the Fighter, Barbarian and the Rogue in combat, and (once buffed) the Cleric. I think a Bard will be a vital asset. A further melee warrior (like a Paladin) won't add much, and the various meelees would just step on each others toes (quite literally).
That said, if you usually enjoy playing a melee fighter (or even a Paladin especially), that might be a nice choice. If you love Clerics, a further Cleric never hurts (but ensure that you two have sufficient different Gods and Domains - this allows for more versatiliy of the group and for a clearer distinction between you two).
Obviously, a Bard will also be useful in all non-combat situations. Bardic Knowledge (or the new PHB II Bardic Jack-of-all-Trades-Feature-what-was-its-name) should also be very useful. The social skills will work a lot better with the Bard than the Paladin (Paladin has only Diplomacy and Sense Motive, but a bard can also pick up Bluff, Gather Information and Knowledge (Local), which will also aid in non-straight-forward or honest dealings
)Oh, and don't waste skill points on multiple Perform skills - Singing is enough.
(I believe the Complete Adventurer also offers the Feat Versatile Performer, allowing you to spread your perform skill for other instruments)
Dracomeander
First Post
It looks like you've decided, but I'll still put my two cents in.
My choice in your situation would be to play the Bard working toward Sublime Chord PrC from Complete Arcane. The Sublime Chord retains the useful buffing music of the bard and adds a few new songs. You still retain the ability of a secondary healer of a bard and at the higher levels gain the ability to act as a secondary arcane caster with access to the full sorcerer/wizard spell list to choose spells from. You even increase your spell abilities to allow you access to 7th through 9th level spells.
My choice in your situation would be to play the Bard working toward Sublime Chord PrC from Complete Arcane. The Sublime Chord retains the useful buffing music of the bard and adds a few new songs. You still retain the ability of a secondary healer of a bard and at the higher levels gain the ability to act as a secondary arcane caster with access to the full sorcerer/wizard spell list to choose spells from. You even increase your spell abilities to allow you access to 7th through 9th level spells.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
As a in the campaign: i think Shackled City is still a very fair campaign, totally unlike my experiences as a player in the Age of Worms campaign, which we call "Sterbekasse" (funeral expenses fund) now...BobROE said:
In Shackled City, we had a suboptimal class and number constellation (starting with only 3 "core" players - with a Bard, a Barbarian and a Ranger). We still managed fairly well, though we once had a near-TPK (which was more our fault than anything), "permanently" losing the Barbarian which was then replaced by a Fighter (a bit better suited thanks to higher AC).
Later, we gained a new player and thus also a new character - a Cleric. From then on, the game had been sometimes dangerous and potentially lethal, but we always managed to get by, (with the usual few Raise Deads or Ressourections on the way...). And we had a lot of fun so far.
The "unexpected" things of Shackled City are often the best encounters, because they challenge you to cope with something unusual. As a I player I like it.
BobROE said:
What are you wary of exactly - the fact that the encounters are difficult or that Archade may provide an example or two of how he described certain encounters?
I am assuming its the former because as I mentioned above, if the key to surviving certain encounters, which pit you against something you wouldent normally or logically expect to combat (which in our group means instant death Bob
), is a solid description then our group could benefit from a few examples.Don't worry Bob, it'll be just like City of the Spider Queen - TPK on the first encounter!
WizarDru
Adventurer
Gregor said:
I'm currently running SCAP for my players. Tough at points? Yes. A Meat-grinder? No. I'm going to recommend the bard as a pretty decent choice.
Part of any recommendation anyone makes has to factor in your group and your DM. For example, in my game the party really felt the lack of a good social 'face' character, particularly when dealing with the nobility at a fairly important event, though they got through it fine. SCAP has lots of fairly important and detailed NPCs and a large part of the campaign touches on your interactions with them. In Cauldron, a lot of the game is not just what you know, but who you know.
For example, there are several groups in SCAP who can help the players, even to the extent of helping to fight the bad guys....but only if you can make them your allies. A bard is an excellent choice at this...especially if he's something of a skill monkey. The first few adventures alone include lots of situations where a bard could really shine.
The bard's UMD skill is quite handy at later levels, but even at low levels, by simply purchasing a Cure Light Wounds wand, you can act as the party's backup healer and all around support character. The paladin isn't a bad choice, but he's pretty redundant in a group like this. I'd sooner suggest a fighter with an alternate focus (such as archer, two-hander, turtle or exotic) or a cleric of a different faith if you really think combat ability is what you want.
Gregor said:I am assuming its the former because as I mentioned above, if the key to surviving certain encounters, which pit you against something you wouldent normally or logically expect to combat (which in our group means instant death Bob
Part of the fun, is that you don't know what your up against. Unless you figure it out in the campaign.
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