Stat Block Problems w/ Hordes of the Abyss

[JoeGKushner]

They could always do it like this: hp 33 (6d10 HD)

And don't forget con bonus!

It's not that the stat block is impossible to use or appreciate, it's just being done really half a**. And it has been since it's introduction. For NO GOOD REASON.

 

[Mythtify]

Demons have the outsider subtype. According to the Monster Manual, and the SRD the hit dice for any outsider is a d8. Therefore, the demon in question that list Hit points 110 ( 10 hit dice) would be Hit Points:110 (10d8). It should be easy to look at determine what the constitution bonus is.

That said, it would be nice if Wotc did the work for you. Though I don't see the hit dice being left out of this book as a deal breaker, since all the creatures are outsiders.

 

[JustaPlayer]

IMO WotC doesn't give a darn what they put out as long as the sheep buy it. Try writing to them and you get the run around. Go to their boards and the answer is that if you have problems you should right them because the forum is fan based.

Well, because they make DnD all the blinded WotC can do know wrong followers will continue to pick up the stuff. Therefore any thing you can say will ultimately fall on def ears.

 

[Vanye]

We've moved from a 10-minute character creation pencil and paper role-playing game to a 60-minute character creation computer and printer roll-playing game.

I can still have a 1st level character created in about 10 minutes.
More advanced characters take longer, and arcane spellcasters take the longest regardless of level.

OTOH, I have yet to play a game where any non-beginning character creation is "fast".

 

[ThirdWizard]

The new stat block is great. It's a vast improvement, IMO, over the previous, unreadable, unusable "paragraph crapshoot" style.

I believe he was referencing the Monster blocks. You know, like in the Monster Manual and the like. They were better than the current format for listing monsters, IMO. The new format is great for grabbing a monster and running it in a game, but I don't need that in my monster lists. In my monster lists I want lots of info so that I can change, advance, and do all sorts of things with them. The new format doesn't work with us enough in that regard.

 

[buzz]

I believe he was referencing the Monster blocks. You know, like in the Monster Manual and the like. They were better than the current format for listing monsters, IMO. The new format is great for grabbing a monster and running it in a game, but I don't need that in my monster lists. In my monster lists I want lots of info so that I can change, advance, and do all sorts of things with them. The new format doesn't work with us enough in that regard.

Ah, I see. Still it would be trivial to add that data back in, thus giving you the info you want and making the books more useable as in-game reference.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Demons have the outsider subtype. According to the Monster Manual, and the SRD the hit dice for any outsider is a d8. Therefore, the demon in question that list Hit points 110 ( 10 hit dice) would be Hit Points:110 (10d8). It should be easy to look at determine what the constitution bonus is.

That said, it would be nice if Wotc did the work for you. Though I don't see the hit dice being left out of this book as a deal breaker, since all the creatures are outsiders.

Maybe.

But what about Extraplanar Undead? or Constructs?

What about creatures with the Toughness (or Imp. Toughness) Feats?

Magic Items granted bonus Hit Points?

Advanced Creatures with levels of Sorceror or Barbarian?

That Parenthitical Information made it so much easier for me to quickly modify an encounter to best challenge my players, whether that was to exploit a weakness or play to a strength.

I was better able to give my players personalized challenges with the old format, something that's a pain to do with the new, abbreviated, Stat-Block.

Heck, they don't even have the AC breakdown. That's teh quickest place I'd fiddle with (+ Nat AC/Profane/Defelction bonus here, there. And god forbid one of my players has unique attack that ignores certain types of Armor Bonus.

I just like to be able to quickly tinker with Monsters. I could do that pretty quickly with the old Monster Format. The new format makes it almost impossible without just building my own version from the ground up anyway.

PS. I'm compring the Block found in the Hordes of the Abyss & the Complete Psionic (I have that) to the Old Format used in the 3.5 Monster Manual.

If Adventures have some other sort of Mini-Block I don't know about it, as it's been 11 years since I've ran a module (I was never any good at it, I find it easier to just make my own).

This new Stat Block (while laid out better) fails to give me the information I need to accurately run a combat 50% of the time. The old block had all the info I needed 95% of the time.

 

[BOZ]

I finished reading through Hordes of the Abyss last night. I hope to have my review of it up this weekend.

woohoo!

 

[James Jacobs]

While I agree wholeheartedly that it was a poor decision to omit the Power Attack values from the stat blocks, all the other information you need is there. Specifically, the armor bonuses are included for all the stat blocks (they weren't in earlier books, but we made sure to include them in this one). Since the demon lord stat blocks are INTENDED to be baselines that a DM advances to whatever CR he wishes, it really annoys me that missing information like the Power Attack values throw a monkey wrench into the works.

As for the missing hit die types; those never change and are inexorably tied to a monster's type, so even though the stat blocks don't show them, they're easy enough to determine. Even more so for Hordes of the Abyss, since every new monster in there's an outsider, and thus they all have d8 Hit Dice.

 

[Alzrius]

That said, I think the game is probably too complex.

[...]

Errors in stat blocks indicate two things to me: 1) The game is probably too complicated

Everytime the designers start talking about the game itself being too complicated, I get exceptionally nervous that people are suggesting that the entire game needs overhauling, which is the sort of thing that can only be done with a new edition.