Stat this up # 2

[Nookie]

Oriental Dragons in the 3E Oriental Adventures start out as Carp Dragons with the following stats:

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Age
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Size
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hit Dice (hp)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Str
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dex
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Con
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Int
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Wis
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cha
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wyrmling
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]T
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6d12+6 (45)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Very young
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]S
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9d12+9 (67)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Young
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12d12+24 (102)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Then they become juveniles with stats that depend on the type of Oriental Dragon. I'll include a juvenile Copper Dragon for comparison:

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Type
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Size
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hit Dice (hp)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Str
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dex
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Con
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Int
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Wis
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cha
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chiang lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16d12+64 (168)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Li lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14d12+42 (133)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lung wang
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17d12+68 (178)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pan lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13d12+26 (110)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shen lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15d12+45 (142)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]T'ien lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17d12+68 (178)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tun mi lung
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16d12+64 (168)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Copper
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14d12+28 (119)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Looking at the above, a juvenile Copper Dragon is closest to a juvenile Pan Lung (aka River Dragon), so maybe we should use some of the Pan Lung's stats instead?

So how about this for the Hu Lung?:

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Age
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Size
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hit Dice (hp)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Str
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dex
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Con
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Int
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Wis
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cha
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wyrmling[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]T
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5d12+5 (37)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Very young
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]S
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8d12+8 (60)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Young
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11d12+22 (93)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Juvenile
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]M
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14d12+28 (119)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Young Adult[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17d12+51 (161)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adult
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20d12+80 (210)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mature Adult
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]H
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23d12+115 (264)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Old
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]H
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26d12+130 (299)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Very Old
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]H
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29d12+174 (362)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]31
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ancient
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]H
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]32d12+192 (400)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wyrm
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]G
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35d12+245 (472)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Great Wyrm
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]G
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]38d12+304 (551)
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]37
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I can get on board with that advancment. I guess there is no reason to do the carp dragon thing if were just gonna have the lesser fox dragon morph into a wyrmling once it performs a great deed or masters a mystic art. There should be something to reflect its mastered art in its stats.

 

[Cleon]

I can get on board with that advancment. I guess there is no reason to do the carp dragon thing if were just gonna have the lesser fox dragon morph into a wyrmling once it performs a great deed or masters a mystic art. There should be something to reflect its mastered art in its stats.

I wouldn't go for the a full transformation from very young Carp to juvenile Dragon like the regular Oriental Dragons do. For a start, I don't fancy making the "larval" stage of the Fox Dragon be aquatic.

That said, I would be game to have it gain most of its "dragon powers" at the juvenile stage, possibly accompanied by some kind of physical transformation.

How about having it starting to sprout extra tails as it matures? There's long been legends in China and Japan of ancient magical foxes that have more than one tail.

So it becomes, say, a two-tailed fox dragon at juvenile, then an extra tail at each age category until it becomes a nine-tailed great wyrm fox dragon.

I wouldn't interpret this as giving it extra tail slap attacks, although we might allow it to gain a tail sweep attack earlier than a standard true dragon.

Speaking of its tail slap attack, presumably all age stages will have one (rather than it only gaining it at Large size like a regular true dragon) and it'll do extra fire damage. We'll have to figure that out. We won't have to modify

We need to decide what breath weapon to give it. I'm thinking line of fire.

Do you have any preferences for the natural armour bonus? A juvenile Copper Dragon has +13 natural while a juvenile Pan Lung has +12.

That'd translate to +4 or +3 NA for a wyrmling.

Our Foxdragon has +2 NA, so either of them would do.

 

[Nookie]

I wouldn't go for the a full transformation from very young Carp to juvenile Dragon like the regular Oriental Dragons do. For a start, I don't fancy making the "larval" stage of the Fox Dragon be aquatic.

That said, I would be game to have it gain most of its "dragon powers" at the juvenile stage, possibly accompanied by some kind of physical transformation.

How about having it starting to sprout extra tails as it matures? There's long been legends in China and Japan of ancient magical foxes that have more than one tail.

So it becomes, say, a two-tailed fox dragon at juvenile, then an extra tail at each age category until it becomes a nine-tailed great wyrm fox dragon.

I wouldn't interpret this as giving it extra tail slap attacks, although we might allow it to gain a tail sweep attack earlier than a standard true dragon.

Speaking of its tail slap attack, presumably all age stages will have one (rather than it only gaining it at Large size like a regular true dragon) and it'll do extra fire damage. We'll have to figure that out. We won't have to modify

We need to decide what breath weapon to give it. I'm thinking line of fire.

Do you have any preferences for the natural armour bonus? A juvenile Copper Dragon has +13 natural while a juvenile Pan Lung has +12.

That'd translate to +4 or +3 NA for a wyrmling.

Our Foxdragon has +2 NA, so either of them would do.

True dragon natural armor is ususaly HD-1 if i recall correctly.

Tale slap at each age catagory sounds good. Maybe at a certain age catagory it can do a 360 sweep with its man tales.

Sense it has to "master a mystic discipline" maybe we give it one tale for each level of spell it can cast and make it advance as a wizard and have to keep a spellbook or it inscribes its spells upon its scales or something..

Fire breathweapon seems appropriate maybe an added effect of dazzling the enemy as it can be a line of "Foxfire."

 

[Cleon]

True dragon natural armor is ususaly HD-1 if i recall correctly.

Well they tend towards NA = HD-1 (i.e. Copper Dragon, Pan Lung) but there are some with NA = HD (i.e. Tun Mi Lung, Rust Dragon) or NA = HD-2 (i.e Hex Dragon) and, more to the point, we can give it whatever we want since it's our Homebrew!

That said, I'm quite happy to use the +4 natural armour you'd get from HD-1 so let's use that.

Tale slap at each age catagory sounds good. Maybe at a certain age catagory it can do a 360 sweep with its man tales.

Oh I like the expanded tail sweep idea. Maybe have it start at the standard 180 then increase to 270 and finally 360 degrees?

If we key it to size categories presumably it'd go:

Large size = standard half-circle tail sweep
Huge size = three-quarter circle tail sweep
Gargantuan size = full circle tail sweep

We should also change the attack so it doesn't only affect creatures four or more size categories smaller. At the very least, the fire damage a Fox Dragon's tail does shouldn't be concerned how small the target is!

Sense it has to "master a mystic discipline" maybe we give it one tale for each level of spell it can cast and make it advance as a wizard and have to keep a spellbook or it inscribes its spells upon its scales or something..

I thought we were going for "Sylvan Guardian" rather than "Mystic Master".

Incidentally, Oriental Dragons don't have innate sorcerer spellcasting but just a few spell-like abilities, suggesting our Fox Dragon might not have sorcerer/wizard spellcasting at all.

Fire breathweapon seems appropriate maybe an added effect of dazzling the enemy as it can be a line of "Foxfire."

Yes, maybe have the targets glow for, say, 1 round per age category during which they are dazzled and cannot benefit from concealment, similar to but brighter than faerie fire. We could go the whole hog and have it cause blindness like glitterdust but that seems a little too far.

Should we have a secondary save to see whether the foxfire "sticks"? The precedents I quoted either have no save (faerie fire) or a Will save (glitterdust).

 

[Nookie]

Well they tend towards NA = HD-1 (i.e. Copper Dragon, Pan Lung) but there are some with NA = HD (i.e. Tun Mi Lung, Rust Dragon) or NA = HD-2 (i.e Hex Dragon) and, more to the point, we can give it whatever we want since it's our Homebrew!

That said, I'm quite happy to use the +4 natural armour you'd get from HD-1 so let's use that.



Oh I like the expanded tail sweep idea. Maybe have it start at the standard 180 then increase to 270 and finally 360 degrees?

If we key it to size categories presumably it'd go:

Large size = standard half-circle tail sweep
Huge size = three-quarter circle tail sweep
Gargantuan size = full circle tail sweep

We should also change the attack so it doesn't only affect creatures four or more size categories smaller. At the very least, the fire damage a Fox Dragon's tail does shouldn't be concerned how small the target is!



I thought we were going for "Sylvan Guardian" rather than "Mystic Master".

Incidentally, Oriental Dragons don't have innate sorcerer spellcasting but just a few spell-like abilities, suggesting our Fox Dragon might not have sorcerer/wizard spellcasting at all.



Yes, maybe have the targets glow for, say, 1 round per age category during which they are dazzled and cannot benefit from concealment, similar to but brighter than faerie fire. We could go the whole hog and have it cause blindness like glitterdust but that seems a little too far.

Should we have a secondary save to see whether the foxfire "sticks"? The precedents I quoted either have no save (faerie fire) or a Will save (glitterdust).

I like all those ideas. Glow + dazzle for breathweapon. Maybe on it tale as well so it can ferret out invisibles.

Sense were going with oriental dragon it doesnt get spells so we should cook up a few more special powers than a normal dragon has to keep the fox dragon challenging enough.

How about it can flare its tale up like its lesser counterpart can Plus few different more interesting ways. Like it can conjure Fire elemental with the spirit subtype and a fly speed. I see lots of art for multi tale foxes with weird balls of fire flying around their tales Like maybe one tiny elemental per tale and it can bump up an elementals size by sacrificing one or something like that.

Also where is @freyer

 

[Cleon]

I like all those ideas. Glow + dazzle for breathweapon. Maybe on it tale as well so it can ferret out invisibles.

Sounds good. I think we have enough to start up a Working Draft.

Sense were going with oriental dragon it doesnt get spells so we should cook up a few more special powers than a normal dragon has to keep the fox dragon challenging enough.

How about it can flare its tale up like its lesser counterpart can Plus few different more interesting ways. Like it can conjure Fire elemental with the spirit subtype and a fly speed. I see lots of art for multi tale foxes with weird balls of fire flying around their tales Like maybe one tiny elemental per tale and it can bump up an elementals size by sacrificing one or something like that.

Oriental Dragons tend to have a wide selection of special abilities so I'm fine giving the Fox Dragon a bunch too.

All the official 3E Oriental Dragons have:

As per standard True Dragons - Bite, Claw, Grappling*, Wing, Tail Slap, Tail Sweep, Crush, Frightful Presence, Keen Senses, Spell Resistance, Damage Reduction, Immunity to sleep & paralysis, Blindsense/sight*.
* NOTE The Lung Dragons are 3.0 creatures so are listed with a 3.0 versions of a true dragon's Grappling and Blindsight (30 ft. per age category, which becomes 60 ft. Blindsense for 3.5 true dragons. Which do we want to use?)
Additional Powers: All mature Lung Dragons possess Detect Thoughts (Su); Invisibility (Su); Alternate Form (Su) and Plane Shift (Sp). The immature Carp Dragons do not have any of these additional powers.

The individual Oriental Dragons each have their own powers too, of course, namely:

Chiang Lung (River Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Cause Rain (Su); Control Water (Sp); Tsunami (Su); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Li Lung (Earth Dragon) - Earthquake Immunity (Su); Earthquake (Su); Roar (Ex); Tunneling (Ex); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Lung Wang (Sea Dragon) - Breath Weapon (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Scaly Command (Su); Fire Immunity (Ex); Capsize (Ex); Fog Cloud (Sp);Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Pan Lung (Coiled Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Scaly Command (Su); Water Fire (Su); Constrict (Ex); Minion (Su); Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Shen Lung (Spirit Dragon) - Fly (Su); Long Tail (Ex); Water Breathing (Ex); Fire Vulnerability; Scaly Command (Su); Vermin Barrier (Su); Water Fire (Su); Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
T'ien Lung (Celestial Dragon) - Breath Weapon (Su); Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Control Weather (Sp); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Tun Mi Lung (Typhoon Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Air and Water Immunity (Ex); Divine Wind (Sp); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Yu Lung (Carp Dragon) - Water Breathing (Ex).

Hmm... only two of the Oriental Dragons have Breath Weapons, so perhaps we should just give it the "flaming tail"?

How about it can flare its tale up like its lesser counterpart can Plus few different more interesting ways. Like it can conjure Fire elemental with the spirit subtype and a fly speed. I see lots of art for multi tale foxes with weird balls of fire flying around their tales Like maybe one tiny elemental per tale and it can bump up an elementals size by sacrificing one or something like that.

I like the "summon foxfire elemental" idea. We can certainly make something out of it.

Also where is @freyer

He's on holiday up to Tuesday, so is unlikely to post anything before the middle to end of the week.

 

[Nookie]

Sounds good. I think we have enough to start up a Working Draft.



Oriental Dragons tend to have a wide selection of special abilities so I'm fine giving the Fox Dragon a bunch too.

All the official 3E Oriental Dragons have:

As per standard True Dragons - Bite, Claw, Grappling*, Wing, Tail Slap, Tail Sweep, Crush, Frightful Presence, Keen Senses, Spell Resistance, Damage Reduction, Immunity to sleep & paralysis, Blindsense/sight*.
* NOTE The Lung Dragons are 3.0 creatures so are listed with a 3.0 versions of a true dragon's Grappling and Blindsight (30 ft. per age category, which becomes 60 ft. Blindsense for 3.5 true dragons. Which do we want to use?)
Additional Powers: All mature Lung Dragons possess Detect Thoughts (Su); Invisibility (Su); Alternate Form (Su) and Plane Shift (Sp). The immature Carp Dragons do not have any of these additional powers.

The individual Oriental Dragons each have their own powers too, of course, namely:

Chiang Lung (River Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Cause Rain (Su); Control Water (Sp); Tsunami (Su); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Li Lung (Earth Dragon) - Earthquake Immunity (Su); Earthquake (Su); Roar (Ex); Tunneling (Ex); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Lung Wang (Sea Dragon) - Breath Weapon (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Scaly Command (Su); Fire Immunity (Ex); Capsize (Ex); Fog Cloud (Sp);Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Pan Lung (Coiled Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Scaly Command (Su); Water Fire (Su); Constrict (Ex); Minion (Su); Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Shen Lung (Spirit Dragon) - Fly (Su); Long Tail (Ex); Water Breathing (Ex); Fire Vulnerability; Scaly Command (Su); Vermin Barrier (Su); Water Fire (Su); Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
T'ien Lung (Celestial Dragon) - Breath Weapon (Su); Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Control Weather (Sp); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Tun Mi Lung (Typhoon Dragon) - Fly (Su); Water Breathing (Ex); Air and Water Immunity (Ex); Divine Wind (Sp); Other Spell-Like Abilities (Sp).
Yu Lung (Carp Dragon) - Water Breathing (Ex).

Hmm... only two of the Oriental Dragons have Breath Weapons, so perhaps we should just give it the "flaming tail"?



I like the "summon foxfire elemental" idea. We can certainly make something out of it.



He's on holiday up to Tuesday, so is unlikely to post anything before the middle to end of the week.

I like no breath weapon. We just up the flame tale damage. Like something small like 1d8 fire damage each 4 age catagories (So 4d8 + Foxfire at great Wyrm.) comes out to about the same damage as a copper breath weapon every 3 rounds rounds.

Looks like several SLA at juvenile.
And than one more ever other age category after that.

On top of that they get Flame shift, Detect thoughts, Invisibility, alternate form (humanoid)

Summon Foxfire elemental (Su): starting at X age catagory A Hu long can flare up its mystical tale fire calling forth glowing blue spheres of living flame. These foxfire elementals have the same stats as fire elementals but have the spirit subtype and a fly speed of 60 ft good (Or perfect) and can inflict the foxfire condition (See the hu longs tale attack for details) 2 hit dice per age catagory of the dragon can be called forth each day. the dragon needent use all the hit dice in one sitting. These elementals remain for x hours.

 

[Cleon]

I like no breath weapon. We just up the flame tale damage. Like something small like 1d8 fire damage each 4 age catagories (So 4d8 + Foxfire at great Wyrm.) comes out to about the same damage as a copper breath weapon every 3 rounds rounds.

Looks like several SLA at juvenile.
And than one more ever other age category after that.

On top of that they get Flame shift, Detect thoughts, Invisibility, alternate form (humanoid)

Summon Foxfire elemental (Su): starting at X age catagory A Hu long can flare up its mystical tale fire calling forth glowing blue spheres of living flame. These foxfire elementals have the same stats as fire elementals but have the spirit subtype and a fly speed of 60 ft good (Or perfect) and can inflict the foxfire condition (See the hu longs tale attack for details) 2 hit dice per age catagory of the dragon can be called forth each day. the dragon needent use all the hit dice in one sitting. These elementals remain for x hours.

Let's get the basics sorted out first.

Presumably we're keeping the Foxdragon's Burn, Flight and Heat Haze abilities.

I'm thinking we should give the Fox Dragon a "fiery aura" ability so it can surround its body in fire if it wants to, maybe based on the "Water Fire" ability of some Lung Dragons.

We should probably also give it Fire Immunity like a Lung Wang.

Come to think of it, shouldn't the regular Foxdragon have Fire Immunity or at least fire resistance? It does have the abilities to surround itself in a heat haze and have its tail bursts into flame!

Also, we need to decide if it has an elemental subtype. All the existing Lung Dragons are Air, Earth or Water creatures. Considering its abilities Fire is the obvious pick, but I'd be OK not giving it an elemental subtype since the Foxdragon doesn't have one, leaving it with just the Spirit subtype. Not all fire-using creatures have to have the Fire subtype.

 

[Nookie]

Let's get the basics sorted out first.

Presumably we're keeping the Foxdragon's Burn, Flight and Heat Haze abilities.

I'm thinking we should give the Fox Dragon a "fiery aura" ability so it can surround its body in fire if it wants to, maybe based on the "Water Fire" ability of some Lung Dragons.

We should probably also give it Fire Immunity like a Lung Wang.

Come to think of it, shouldn't the regular Foxdragon have Fire Immunity or at least fire resistance? It does have the abilities to surround itself in a heat haze and have its tail bursts into flame!

Also, we need to decide if it has an elemental subtype. All the existing Lung Dragons are Air, Earth or Water creatures. Considering its abilities Fire is the obvious pick, but I'd be OK not giving it an elemental subtype since the Foxdragon doesn't have one, leaving it with just the Spirit subtype. Not all fire-using creatures have to have the Fire subtype.

Well it is very fiery seems appropriate to gave the fire subtype. a foxfire aura sounds spiffy as well as the lesser fox dragon powers.

I would be ok with the Lesser dragon having some fire resistance while the true version has fire subtype (and immunity) as an evolution of that.

 

[Cleon]

Well it is very fiery seems appropriate to gave the fire subtype. a foxfire aura sounds spiffy as well as the lesser fox dragon powers.

Yup! We've got room to add more powers to it too. Anyhow, I think that's enough of an outline for me to start up a Working Draft.

I would be ok with the Lesser dragon having some fire resistance while the true version has fire subtype (and immunity) as an evolution of that.

I'd rather give them fire resistance/immunity and just the Spirit subtype.

The Cold Resistance and liability to being rebuked/commanded/bolstered by Fire Domain clerics of the Fire Subtype just seems wrong to me. It also seems wrong for fire clerics to be able to command Red Dragons with their turn/rebuke power too, but that's another matter.

That reminds me, should the Foxdragon have the Spirit subtype added to it or just the Fox Dragon version? I'm inclined to reserve the subtype to the true dragon version and say the Foxdragon's been "promoted" to that subtype.