State of the RPG Industry

[Umbran]

My perception is that more D&D GMs use prepared scenarios now than did in the pre-D&D3E days, but that Dungeon largely fills that demand.

Yes. I personally expect that is because the shorter scenarios are far less susceptible to exclusion based upon Pramas' points 1 and 2. Shorter scenarios are far more flexible. And, in a product comprised of short scenarios, the person doesn't automatically exclude the whole book for those points.

The question them becomes, how do you do adventures to compete with Dungeon?

 

[Desdichado]

It doesn't boggle me at all, for one simple reason - it is not true that all press is good press. A bad movie or cartoon can cause people to choose to not play the game. A dumb or low quality action figure isn't going to turn people on - it will turn people off. Add to this the fact that we're not yet out of the current economic dip that will have put a damper on more chancey ventures, and you have the current position.

So, WotC has to bide it's tiime, and wait until a quality use of the IP comes along.

It seems the future of IP utilization is probably computer and video games. And I'd not necessarily say that WotC is sitting on those properties; there's a fair amount of D&D games out right now for the PC, xbox, Playstation, etc. and there's more on the way all the time. The new Magic game for xbox looks potentially very interesting as well.

In other words, I disagree with both of you; I think WotC is utilizing their IP probably in the most financially sound way they can.

 

[Erratic K]

I think there is some balkanization of the RPG industry. I think that 3.5E causes some factionalization of the D20 consumer audience. There was a certain uniting or banding together of RPG players when 3E came out. It attracted new players, won back some old players, and probably converted some players of other systems. Now with 3.5E, some players move to 3.5E, some stay with 3.0E, some probably went back to other systems. Here are a couple reasons I think this happened:

1) Some players are happy with 3E
2) Some are unwilling to pay price of entry to 3.5E
3) Some are unwilling to marginalize their investment (if they move to 3.5 their old material is useless or they fear they will enter a constant upgrade cycle similar to the software industry)
4) After 3 years of experience with the 3.X system, some players are moving to other systems (this is a small group from what I've seen selling in games stores), some are returning, some are new RPGers experimenting
5) Some move happily to 3.5

The d20 movement was a dominant RPG industry trend but the 3.5E switch broke some of the momentum. I also think the glut of d20 products has changed the retail landscape (and to a different extent the gaming landscape). The retail landscape is release oriented now. Not much restocking and tons of new release fever (this is always true in retail, but seems more intense right now- I wonder if this opinion is upheld by the recent number of products that went into a second or third print run compared with previous years).

I realize that d20 is not the whole RPG industry, but it is such a large part right now that any break down of the RPG industry should at least consider d20 type games. I think there will be one of two paths ahead: either a slow cooling (like when D&D has fragmented before), or some new "hot" trend will eat into the RPG pie, like CCGs did in the 90's (or perhaps an RPG trend will eat into the d20 pie but for the short term, I doubt it). It is part of the boom and bust cycle, the boom was ~2000 to now. It is possible some new RPG industry element will spark some kind of fire, but I think not until after the fields lay fallow for a while.

-E

Me, I'm gonna continue gaming and having fun.

 

[Erik Mona]

>>>
The question them becomes, how do you do adventures to compete with Dungeon?
>>>

I'm sort of hoping that you don't.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine

 

[Jim Butler]

The question them becomes, how do you do adventures to compete with Dungeon?

You do that by providing materials that DMs want and need but are not filled by Dungeon. For instance, perhaps DMs really *want* and *need* a complete set of minis to go with each of their adventures. You come out with the Adventure Box and live happily ever after with Shrek in the swamp.

Remember that you probably can't just provide "better" adventures then Dungeon and compete with them. People have claimed for years that their RPG system was "better" then D&D, that their innovative new card game was better then Magic, and that there miniatures wargame provided more options then Warhammer. Where are those games now on the grand scheme of things? Mostly off the radar...

That's an evolutionary step that everyone's looking for, though. All of the publishers are looking out into the ether and wondering why more then 2 million people play RPGs each month, but only a few thousand of any particular title is sold. And the first publisher to figure all that out will have his efforts duplicated by everyone

Adventures are the lifeblood of the industry because they make a DM's life easier, but they're also the worst-selling of products (which is why publishers aren't really looking to compete with Dungeon).

 

[woodelf]

Adventures are the lifeblood of the industry because they make a DM's life easier, but they're also the worst-selling of products (which is why publishers aren't really looking to compete with Dungeon).

BTW, did Dungeon *ever* have non-D&D scenarios in it? I never really followed it in the early days, 'cause i didn't want scenarios, and i still had a multi-year backlog of scenarios in Dragon (not to mention fiction in Dragon, which is often just as good for generating a game session), and then the ndelicious scenarios of Arcane showed up, and so on--so my only direct experience with Dungeon is the couple of issues i've picked up glued to an issue of Polyhedron.

 

[Arnwyn]

You know, there's another solution: switch to a game system that *does* have the sort of support you want, or one that is mechanically simple enough that adapting movie/novel/TV plots is trivial. Or, in short, you can leave D&D/D20 System without leaving RPing.

And it's a poor solution. My (admittedly hidden) implication was "And if D&D/d20 can't provide the sort of support I want I'm in trouble, since no other system does". Further, "not providing the sort of support I want" and "a good game system" are not correlated in any way. So why would I go to an inferior system just for more (inferior) support?

BTW, did Dungeon *ever* have non-D&D scenarios in it?

Yes, it did. It had at least one Top Secret scenario.

 

[Jim Butler]

It is certainly *not* as engaging, as you put it, as reading an adventure. While I don't look forward to reading Draconomicon, I certainly do look forward to reading The Lost City of Barakus, or my next issue of Dungeon Magazine. *That's* good reading.

It's scary if publishers really think this way.

Along these lines, there are two kinds of game products.

The first kind of game product is written by someone who's really wanting to tell a story. It's the novelette-in-a-game-book syndrome. The product has a few game mechanics elements, but it's primarily written to entertain.

The second is the story-as-a-backdrop products. These products provide the shell of a story and focus instead on the game elements over the plot elements. More and more, Wizards has been striving for this sort of content in its products (crunchy bits over fiction). It's a tough balance.

Like everything else in the games business, though, there are people who like one and detest the other. Publishers must walk the fine line of providing what the fans want so they can sell that product and make new ones. And each of you vote by buying a product en masse (or choosing not to). All of the glory and praise in the world doesn't do a publisher any good* if you only sell a book to one out of six gamers at the table.

This really seems to come to light when you look at brand new rules systems. Some gamers *love* a new rules system, but those gamers seem to represent about 10% or so of the marketplace (with a vast majority of other gamers embracing the rules systems they love). This 10% is also highly transitory (since they'll be looking for the next new set of rules shortly after finding the set just release).

So, there's at least the ramblings on how one publisher thinks... ;-)

* Yes, praise is nice. But printers, designers, editors, layout people, and others expect cash for their efforts. And the only reliable way to get cash is to produce best-selling books that gamers rush out to buy.

 

[francisca]

All of the publishers are looking out into the ether and wondering why more then 2 million people play RPGs each month, but only a few thousand of any particular title is sold. And the first publisher to figure all that out will have his efforts duplicated by everyone

Dunno.

Maybe lots of DMs are really picky, and if an adventure doesn't fit just right, or would require too much re-working to shoehorn it in, they pass it by. I've done that myself.

Maybe they just look at adventures and say, "I can do better." Done that too.

Maybe DMs just crack open the monster manual and start chucking, and never run prepared adventures of any kind. Done that as well.

I've done all of the above and I don't think of my DM Mojo as being very high, nor do I think of myself as particularly creative.

But maybe those are some reasons why adventures don't sell well.

 

[francisca]

So, there's at least the ramblings on how one publisher thinks... ;-)

And we appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts. Well, I do at least.