D&D 3E/3.5 Statistical Analysis of 3.5 Power-Attack: UNDERpowered?

[dcollins]

Can anyone tell me how I could be misinterpretting the data?

The change to Power Attack only increases the damage when it is useful. It does not change in any way the fact that Power Attack is more useful against low AC, less useful against high AC. That wasn't the purpose or result of the change, as your numbers bear out.

A better thread title would be "3.5 Power Attack: Still Underpowered Against High AC?". And then the answer would be "yes".

 

[Vymair]

My own mathematical test with Power Attack support the main poster for full round attacks. As the others have pointed, Power Attack has always been a situational feat.

Power Attack is still very useful because it is the Gatekeeper to Cleave, Great Cleave and Improved Sunder which are all very nice feats. The fact that Power Attack has some value and opens the door to these feats make it a worthwhile feat and popular feat.

 

[Destil]

You know that pithy little saying "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit?" Well my saying is "If it has math, it goes in Rules." I know, I know, it doesn't rhyme....

Why not “If statistical [im]balance it shows, into rules it goes.” ?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

(1) It rarely worth the headache to use Power Attack for a full attack.

(2) Power Attack on a single attack, especially a charge attack, does work out to be a modest advantage.

IMNSHO it is not worth a feat for most characters unless you plan on picking up Cleave.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But that pretty much limits the usefulness of PA to once in a combat (unless you disengage and charge in again).

Can you say "Spring Attack"? It is the 2H fighters dream - spring in, big power attack, spring out again. Avoid getting full attacks from nasty monsters.

Plus any time in combat when you are not just slugging it out. What if they withdraw? You have to move to another combatant?

As the PC's in my game are reaching higher level they are avoiding full attack vs full attack situations more and more, because the bad guys can have some *serious* damage dealing capabilities

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Power attack is also very good at helping a character destroy objects. Like doors and gates and stuff.

 

[Christian]

One other note-power attack is most useful when you don't otherwise do much damage. This is because of the fact that your average damage is a product of hit probability and average damage per hit; so, a greater percentage increase in average damage per hit makes the power attack adjustment more useful. And when your average damage per hit is low, your percentage increase in average damage for a flat +x is high.

Obvious corollary-use power attack when attacking something with DR that you don't have the magic weapon to penetrate. Less obvious corollary-PA is most often useful for low-strength characters using low-damage weapons. Of course, you need that 13 Strength minimum to get the feat ...

In 3.0, the person who got the best use from PA was the 13 Strength halfling ranger using a pair of daggers. Doing 1d4+1 base damage (1d4 with the off-hand), a +3 power attack increased his average damage per hit by nearly 100%. Compare the Str 20 Half-orc barbarian with the greatsword. He does 2d6+7 damage normally, so a +3 power attack increases his average damage per hit by barely 20%. Obviously, a much better feat for the halfling.

Of course, in 3.5 the halfling can't use power attack with light weapons at all, and the half-orc gets double value, so the half-orc will be the one who takes the feat. Which I believe is the point of the change.

 

[Darklone]

Most of these calculations don't include the real high ACs. If you got several attacks against a well armoured opponent and barely hit him with less than a nat 20 on the iterative attacks, Power Attacking for your full BAB suddenly raises your damage potential enormously.

OTOH: A feat is not only worth it IMHO if you use it all the time. I'd even say, if someone kept Power Attacking every round to raise his damage output, then the feat would be overpowered.

 

[Fenes 2]

IMC we have a barbarian with a reach weapon, great cleave and combat reflexes. He power attacks often, and while it lowers his damage on full attacks, he does very well on charges, and when using AoOs, which he gets a ton of, and cleaving. In my game, where ACs are low, and most opponents are classed humans, he is very effective. Power Attack can also be very useful against DR.

I've never considered PA useless because it was not as useful on full attacks than on charges, especially since there are feats that are even more situational.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Power attack is also very good at helping a character destroy objects. Like doors and gates and stuff.

Especially with 3.5's "Adamantine ignores Hardness" rule.

Stone has 15 hit points per inch of thickness.

A Brb-20 with 4 iterative attacks can carve a 5x5 tunnel through a mountain at approximately a foot and a half per round with his Adamantine Greatsword.

-Hyp.