Stats, PC's and the effect on a Campaign
- Thread starter Hackenslash
- Start date
Fenris
Adventurer
I use a table of pre-generated stats as well. But they are not randomly determined as in Aaron2's case. I set the point value and then make up 10-12 different sets of stats all with that point value. Then I have the players roll to get a set. Some variation but all the sets are the smae point value.
Recently I modified it so that players could "skew" their roll. I have the same one set of stats but different ways of getting them. A player could choose to roll as a multi-classed which has a higher chance of getting those stat sets that are more broadly based or roll as a focused charcater which would give a better chance of getting one of the stat sets with one or two exceptional scores. Since it is all based on points every one has the same value, they can at least better their odds of getting a stat set they like and yet there is still some variation and chance.
Recently I modified it so that players could "skew" their roll. I have the same one set of stats but different ways of getting them. A player could choose to roll as a multi-classed which has a higher chance of getting those stat sets that are more broadly based or roll as a focused charcater which would give a better chance of getting one of the stat sets with one or two exceptional scores. Since it is all based on points every one has the same value, they can at least better their odds of getting a stat set they like and yet there is still some variation and chance.
cptg1481
First Post
Here's My Method
Tell them to create a character however they want, let them choose the stats.....(bear with me here), most folks will asign themselves reasonable stats because they know that they will be directly scrutnized by each other for them.
If someone shows up with something silly, and/or overpowered, etc., take them aside and tell them. Tell them that as long as they are reasonable they have complete freedom to create that character they've always dreamed of.
Everybody win's they get to play exactly what they want, and trust me it'll make the stress of character loss and roleplaying intensity in your game sky rocket. They'll end up very attached to the characters and therefore your game, your world, and even you.
I mean if you don't trust them to be realistic why do you play with them. I have used this method and my players have niether abused nor tekn advantage of it. As a mater of fact I think they have tried too hard to self-balance thier characters stats.
So try it once....see what they come up with, I'd wager you'll be pleasantly suprised.
Tell them to create a character however they want, let them choose the stats.....(bear with me here), most folks will asign themselves reasonable stats because they know that they will be directly scrutnized by each other for them.
If someone shows up with something silly, and/or overpowered, etc., take them aside and tell them. Tell them that as long as they are reasonable they have complete freedom to create that character they've always dreamed of.
Everybody win's they get to play exactly what they want, and trust me it'll make the stress of character loss and roleplaying intensity in your game sky rocket. They'll end up very attached to the characters and therefore your game, your world, and even you.
I mean if you don't trust them to be realistic why do you play with them. I have used this method and my players have niether abused nor tekn advantage of it. As a mater of fact I think they have tried too hard to self-balance thier characters stats.
So try it once....see what they come up with, I'd wager you'll be pleasantly suprised.
Darklone
Registered User
Sniff. Str 15, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 14.
My favorite rolled stats. Rolled them three times now (yes, elf). Distributed them differently one time. And I liked it.
I don't like point buy. Randomness is great, and my groups usually don't have a problem with superior characters cause of stats. Actually, the weaker ones usually think more and play more clever. And the stats I liked most wouldn't be possible with realistic point buy methods
My favorite rolled stats. Rolled them three times now (yes, elf). Distributed them differently one time. And I liked it.
I don't like point buy. Randomness is great, and my groups usually don't have a problem with superior characters cause of stats. Actually, the weaker ones usually think more and play more clever. And the stats I liked most wouldn't be possible with realistic point buy methods
I like randomness, forcing people to deal with other stat sets.
I like point buy to keep everyone on even ground.
My solution of late has been DM intervention. If you roll crappy, I have you roll again and either take the new one or average (my choice). If you roll too well, I do the same. This keeps all the stats in same realm. Then again, I have never had too much of a problem with stats for characters.
I like point buy to keep everyone on even ground.
My solution of late has been DM intervention. If you roll crappy, I have you roll again and either take the new one or average (my choice). If you roll too well, I do the same. This keeps all the stats in same realm. Then again, I have never had too much of a problem with stats for characters.
This thread should be moved to House Rules.
Heres my House Rule:
2d6+1d8, 7 times keep best 6, arrange how you like.
Now all players compare their highest roll; the highest of the highest becomes everyones new highest roll.
Now all players compare their lowest roll; the highest of the lowest becomes everyones new lowest roll.
This tends to keep the randomness, while also keeping the balance.
Heres my House Rule:
2d6+1d8, 7 times keep best 6, arrange how you like.
Now all players compare their highest roll; the highest of the highest becomes everyones new highest roll.
Now all players compare their lowest roll; the highest of the lowest becomes everyones new lowest roll.
This tends to keep the randomness, while also keeping the balance.
Ah, so many posts to respond to...
H&S, the sample stats you posted are indeed too high for 1st level without tinkering with encounter levels etc. At 41-45 point-buy equivalent, they would be about as powerful as a 2nd level PC with 25 point-buy! (Based on existing ECL calculators, +1 ECL is equivalent to 10-20 extra points.) That means you would have to adjust all the encounters upwards by one level as well to challenge you players, but they still get XP based on their lower apparent level, etc...
If you really *want* your PCs to start out this buff (not just hero material, but closer to super-hero material), you should probably treat them as 2nd level to make sure everything balances out. OR you could just decide to start your campaign at 2nd level, and/or allow them to start with a +1 ECL race...
If you like randomness, but want to keep the balance that point-buy provides, here's some options for you:
1) Roll using your preferred dice method, then adjust stats up or down to match a desired point-buy value. If the point value of the rolled stats is too high, they are only allowed to adjust stats downward, and vice versa. This gives largely random stats, with a little bit of customization, and perfectly point-balanced.
2) Take a deck of cards and remove everything except for the 1-6 cards. Deal 6 stacks of 4 cards, remove the lowest card from each stack. Very elegant method (not mine, but I laways forget who came up with it), and it's a damn sight easier than rolling 24 dice! Equivalent to standard 4d6-drop-lowest, but tends to be much more balanced.
3) Aaron2 & Fenris's method: create a small table (I'd suggest 6 or 20) of stats you feel are balanced, then let them roll on that table (d6 or d20).
4) Roll only the first three stats using dice. The remaining three are equal to 25 minus the first three (max. 18). For each high stat you also get a low one, so the total sum of stats is balanced. For higher stats, subtract from 27, 29, etc.
5) Roll stats using your favorite method. Then calculate point value, and give PC with lower point value some extra skill points or starting XP to balance. I'd recommend 1 skill point or 50 XP per point-buy point below the highest point-buy value.
H&S, the sample stats you posted are indeed too high for 1st level without tinkering with encounter levels etc. At 41-45 point-buy equivalent, they would be about as powerful as a 2nd level PC with 25 point-buy! (Based on existing ECL calculators, +1 ECL is equivalent to 10-20 extra points.) That means you would have to adjust all the encounters upwards by one level as well to challenge you players, but they still get XP based on their lower apparent level, etc...
If you really *want* your PCs to start out this buff (not just hero material, but closer to super-hero material), you should probably treat them as 2nd level to make sure everything balances out. OR you could just decide to start your campaign at 2nd level, and/or allow them to start with a +1 ECL race...
If you like randomness, but want to keep the balance that point-buy provides, here's some options for you:
1) Roll using your preferred dice method, then adjust stats up or down to match a desired point-buy value. If the point value of the rolled stats is too high, they are only allowed to adjust stats downward, and vice versa. This gives largely random stats, with a little bit of customization, and perfectly point-balanced.
2) Take a deck of cards and remove everything except for the 1-6 cards. Deal 6 stacks of 4 cards, remove the lowest card from each stack. Very elegant method (not mine, but I laways forget who came up with it), and it's a damn sight easier than rolling 24 dice! Equivalent to standard 4d6-drop-lowest, but tends to be much more balanced.
3) Aaron2 & Fenris's method: create a small table (I'd suggest 6 or 20) of stats you feel are balanced, then let them roll on that table (d6 or d20).
4) Roll only the first three stats using dice. The remaining three are equal to 25 minus the first three (max. 18). For each high stat you also get a low one, so the total sum of stats is balanced. For higher stats, subtract from 27, 29, etc.
5) Roll stats using your favorite method. Then calculate point value, and give PC with lower point value some extra skill points or starting XP to balance. I'd recommend 1 skill point or 50 XP per point-buy point below the highest point-buy value.
Sir Whiskers
First Post
Conaill: Your method 2 (deck of cards) is not quite the same as roll 4d6, drop lowest, because it is guaranteed to give players the flat average of 11-12 for stats. When rolling you are effectively shuffling the deck between each roll - this method doesn't do that.
You start with 24 cards (4 each of 1-6), then deal all the cards. This means a character will have four 1's, four 2's, etc. If I'm rolling, I might get lucky and roll no 1's. Or I might roll several. The reason this method seems more balanced is because it seriously restricts the variation among characters. The only significant variations come in rare instances (dealing all four sixes to one stat, for example). If that is what the GM wants, then this is a very effective method, but it's not for everyone.
You start with 24 cards (4 each of 1-6), then deal all the cards. This means a character will have four 1's, four 2's, etc. If I'm rolling, I might get lucky and roll no 1's. Or I might roll several. The reason this method seems more balanced is because it seriously restricts the variation among characters. The only significant variations come in rare instances (dealing all four sixes to one stat, for example). If that is what the GM wants, then this is a very effective method, but it's not for everyone.
Exactly. That's precisely the point. With dice rolls, you might get all high stats. This method puts limits on how extreme a character you can come up with. I.e. it generates more balanced characters. Which is a GOOD thing!Sir Whiskers said:
Mind you, it's misleading and, well, just plain incorrect to claim that this method "is guaranteed to give players the flat average of 11-12 for stats". First of all, I assume you mean a "flat average" of 12-13 (as for 4d6).
Each individual stat will have almost the same distribution as using 4d6. It's only when looking at the combined stats that the differences become clear. When averaging across stats, the worst average you can get is 10.5 - the average of 3d6 (although even this set of stats has one 18, and a 29 point value!). The best average is 12.67, well above the 4d6 average. Point values range from a minimum of 24 (I think) to a max of 37.
However, the sets of stats will be much better balanced, in the sense that you cannot have more than one 18 (at best you can have an 18 and a 16), nor can you get more than one stat below 5 (at worst, you can get two 5's, or a 3 and a 6).
If you prefer higher stats than 4d6, you can always add an extra set of 1-6 cards to your deck, and deal stacks of 5 cards (similar to 5d6-drop-2lowest).
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