Stats: previous eds vs 3rd edition.

[Ysgarran]

I have been running a third edition campaign since it first came out. We meet for about 5 hours every two weeks and the characters are all about 12th level now. When we were generating the stats for the player characters I was very lenient on the stat generation method so every character in the campaign has fairly over the top stats.

Now the thought I've had: I am beginning to think that third edition is much more sensitive to inflated stats than the previous editions were. That a character with 16s across the board in third edition gets much more for those high stats a character would in the incarnations of D&D.

Strength: Every +2 in str is worth a level of fighter progession in BAB.
Wis, Dex and Con have a big and direct effect on saving throws. Every stat effects skill ranks.

The positive side is that every stat is much more important now.
The negative side is that when every stat is high the character is much more effective than the equivalent character 1st/2nd ed character.

The biggest problem I've had with inflated stats is that I need to adjust the challenge ratings of every encounter upwards by at least 2 to keep things a challenge for the party. This seems worse when the encounter is strictly a 'fighting' (as opposed to a magic) encounter.

Anybody else run into this kind of problem or notice how big an effect high stats have on the game.

p.s.
The next campaign I run will be on the point system buy, probably 28 points.

 

[James McMurray]

Stats are most definitely more useful in 3e. I woudl defeintely second the point buy method, as it prevents the situation you just mentioned. What's even worse is when one character rolls realy well and has all high stats, and another rolls poorly and has all low. Then you've got characters (possibly of the same class and level) whose abilities aren't even close to one another.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think it just takes a little time to readjust your long-held standards. Don't try and compare the 3e character to a 2e character, of course they'll look much tougher. The adversaries have been suitably beefed up as well (just look at Giants for an example).

Stats aren't any higher; I'm using the exact same methods of generation as in 2e. The difference is that the stats mean more on more levels than they did. But then, the same things apply to the enemies as well - its important not to forget that!

In 2e, I was at the point where I could very easily create an encounter that really challenged my party. It's taken me a while to regain that edge, but I think I've found it again.

You mention bringing every up 2 to make it a challenge - that sounds just about right, as an EL=party level means that they should only use 20% of their resources. Boosting it up 2 makes a more deadly battle. Also keep in mind that EL is balanced for a 4 person party, so you have to modify and tweak things that way, too.

 

[Ysgarran]

Also keep in mind that EL is balanced for a 4 person party, so you have to modify and tweak things that way, too.

I have missed this point. There are 7 characters in the party, all with higher than normal stats. The deadliest encounter for these guys has been the final encounter of 'Nightfang Spire' but that was mainly because the party character balance was a poor match for this encounter.

 

[MythandLore]

Yep.
Listen to Kid C.

The CR of a Monster is saposed to be a fairly easy win for a group of 4 players who's average level is equal to the CR.
Read more about messin' with CRs and ELs in the DMG page 102.

And yeah your right about useing a buy stats with a point system, it is the best way to go if you want to keep things even.

Also how many hours total would you say you've played to get to 12th level?
Seems kinda low to me if you played from the start of 3rd.

 

[MythandLore]

I have missed this point. There are 7 characters in the party, all with higher than normal stats. The deadliest encounter for these guys has been the final encounter of 'Nightfang Spire' but that was mainly because the party character balance was a poor match for this encounter.

Oh, okay I see what happend now.
Yeah to many players.
Each encounter should have been like +2EL over what a normal encounter for a group of 4 would have been.
The large group would slow their gaining of xp too, so I see what happend to the levels.
If your going to run a module the easy thing to do is run one 2 levels high for your size group.
So like you said they are level 12, you should be running a level 14 module for the group.
Stats should be that big a problem though, the players really need the good stats.

 

[trentonjoe]

In 2e, I was at the point where I could very easily create an encounter that really challenged my party. It's taken me a while to regain that edge, but I think I've found it again.

I agree. It took me a long time and all sorts of PC deaths to figure this out.

 

[Ysgarran]

Also how many hours total would you say you've played to get to 12th level?
Seems kinda low to me if you played from the start of 3rd.

That kind of thing is hard to measure. The total amount of time we have spent 'at the table' is around 200 hours. Much of that time is spent with talking about life, politics and religion. Then throw on top of that the occasional combination dinner/D&D sessions. Then you have the role playing time versus the time going around and gathering up experience.

We have been playing the WotC series from Sunless Citadell, to the Dwarven Forge, etc. etc. The last one we finished up was the 'Nightfang Spire module'. Each adventure had a side adventure thrown in the middle to tie everything together.

The campaign in a nutshell:
Forgotten Realms near the western edge of the High Forest. A small barbarian village has been created by the 'Cave Bear' tribe that was forced from the eastern edge of the High Forest by the forces evil of Hellgate Keep. (Hellgate Keep has never fallen in my FR campaign). There is tension between those who want to follow the 'old ways' and those want to follow the civilized ways of the cities of the North.