Stealth/Sneak Attack "Rogue" Build Advice

[Quirken]

Immediate Spell is good. Arcane Trickster, Unseen Seer, and Abjurant Champion are better than Daggerspell Mage.

Would you mind clarifying why for each suggestion, as it relates to Dagerspell Mage?

Arcane Trickster gains impromptu sneak attack, which is definitely solid, but I can already turn invisible once per round. I haven't really played with a rogue before, but I imagine flanking wouldn't be hard with this.

I'm not sure why you suggested Unseen Seer. It definitely adds to sneak attack damage, but it seems less melee focused.

Abjurant Champion seems solid (Arcane Boost and Martial Arcanist!), though.

 

[Dandu]

Immediate Magic: It's broken. If your DM allows it, it's his mistake. If you don't take it, it's yours.

IIRC, Daggerspell Mage loses caster levels but doesn't give you anything worthwhile for the sacrifice. Arcane Trickster and Master of the Unseen Hand, on the other hand, are full caster advancing classes. Read Sneak Attacking Spellcasters: God's Shifty Eyed Cousins for more information.

Incidentally, your DM has an... interesting view of what is balanced and what isn't.

 

[Quirken]

Incidentally, your DM has an... interesting view of what is balanced and what isn't.

Heh. Yes he does. I don't think the shade deserves the +4 level adjustment, especially when we have a kobold who can do an insane amount of fire damage with his breath attack, and has 35 dex. Sure, the Shade has some good abilities, but none of them are super gamebreaking, and most are only useful in running away.

He openly admits certain character builds/classes are "broken" and yet allows them, but other things, which seem less useful, aren't allowed.

All in all, though, he's a fun person to have as DM, and much more lenient in terms of weird sourcebooks or homebrew than my other friends.

Now that that’s decided, the only real choice is between ‘Ranged Sneak Attack’ or ‘Daggerspell Mage’. If it’s the former, you are probably going to want a reserve feat. If it’s the latter, you should probably be reading a Gish guide. But, to save you the time of finding one, I'll let you in on some advice, courtesy of Operation Shoestring: "Daggerspell Mage is a trap. Sane wizards keep their d4 hitdie the heck out of sword's reach."

Problem is, I'm not sane. If I were going for a ranged sneak attack build, I would absolutely drop the Shade template. Unfortunately, I'm rather attached to the idea of being able to teleport around and control light and turn invisible and other things. The guide would definitely give me a stronger character, though...

As far as the d4 goes, I'd only have a d4 for my initial level, thanks to the feat. Daggerspell Mage grants a d6. Not a whole lot better, but worth noting. The Abjurant Champion has a d10, which is definitely tempting. I guess what I don't get about that is how you're supposed to combine melee with spells there.

Additionally, Daggerspell Mage has 6+int skill points per round. That plus Able Learner is pretty sweet.

I'm googling trying to find a "gish" guide, but not having a whole lot of luck.

Would you advise against dipping into spellcasting at all if I'm set on melee sneak attacking?

 

[Dandu]

I guess what I don't get about that is how you're supposed to combine melee with spells there.

There's no specific gish guide I can think of. Best bet is to ask around on BG.

 

[Dandu]

The 4th level gives him the Ki strike, meaning he'll always have a magic weapon, which also goes up a die of damage.

I am sorry, but I can't believe I missed this and feel that I must correct it because I am a petty and spiteful person.

Ki Strike (Su)

At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

You do not actually get magic weapons. You just get to count your fists as magic weapons when DR is involved.

 

[Quirken]

Thank you all for all your suggestions and help.

Based on the forums Dandu recommended, I've come up with a new character concept that's just as cool, with only a +2 level adjustment and 1 racial hit die.

Since it's really a total re-envision (skirmish based rather than sneak attack), I'm going to make a new thread for it.

Thank you all again!