Steve Jackson Games d20 Magazine!

[ColonelHardisson]

I've found that the least successful way to get someone to "chill" is to tell them to "chill" or "unclench." I think it's a legitimate beef. If a game designer thinks I'm not a "real roleplayer", or says I'm not (and if he's joking, how am I to tell? SJ has shown an aversion to D&D and d20, so I wonder how much of it's a "joke"), then I feel I have a right to not buy his products, and to say why I'm not buying them. I think I still have the right to do that.

 

[Jon F. Zeigler]

I think the most useful thing to bear in mind here is the difference between Steve Jackson the gamer, Steve Jackson the RPG designer, and Steve Jackson the businessman.

Steve Jackson the gamer and RPG designer don't like d20, there's no denying that. The system and much of the attached material don't fit the playing style he prefers, and they don't match the design philosophy he prefers. He's said so many times.

Steve Jackson the businessman recognizes that there are plenty of people out there who like d20, and thinks he can offer them a product they will want. I doubt that D20 Weekly will get anything less than wholehearted support from Steve and his company.

Whether SJG fans and D20 fans will be able to co-exist in that virtual space is another matter. I've noticed quite a bit of mutual disdain. (Which I don't understand, particularly. Personally, I'm bilingual - I speak both d20 and GURPS fluently.)

(Disclaimer: Yes, I do a lot of work for SJG, as my signature makes clear. D20 Weekly is Not My Department, though, and I learned about it the same time everyone else did. All of the above is based solely on several years of observing Steve and his company in action.)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

That's fair enough. All I ask is for others to understand what I'm getting at. I have at least two dozen of the GURPS sourcebooks, plus the game itself. I don't particularly like the GURPS system (although, like a true gamer, I hate to part with the game), but I love the sourcebooks. I just feel that if Steve Jackson himself puts me down, albeit indirectly (the whole "real roleplayers don't play d20" type of comment), that I should not buy any more of his products. I'm sure SJG will do a great job on this d20 magazine, just like the company has on everything else it publishes. It's just the principle of the matter - if someone has a low opinion of me because of something I like, I don't really want to give that individual any more of my money. I don't think that's unreasonable. Now, it's entirely possible Steve Jackson didn't actually make a disparaging remark about d20 fans. The evidence is, after all, anecdotal (no offense intended to the poster who quoted Jackson). But Mr. Zeigler's post indicates strongly that it's entirely possible that such a statement could have been made.

 

[mythusmage]

I've found that the least successful way to get someone to "chill" is to tell them to "chill" or "unclench." I think it's a legitimate beef. If a game designer thinks I'm not a "real roleplayer", or says I'm not (and if he's joking, how am I to tell? SJ has shown an aversion to D&D and d20, so I wonder how much of it's a "joke"), then I feel I have a right to not buy his products, and to say why I'm not buying them. I think I still have the right to do that.

Colonel, chill, and that's an order. Jackson expressed an opinion, so damn what? Take a chill pill, have a long soak, tune your radio to a classical music station and zone out. You can either develop a thick skin, or you can get out of the biz.

You are denying yourself some good RPG stuff because of what the company owner said of your favorite game. That I find short-sighted. It also shows a lack of world experience you would do well to correct. In other words, your snit is hurting nobody but you.

So he hurt your feelings. Big deal. You can either get over it, or you can let it fester and ruin your life. Holding a vendetta over what somebody says aint worth the time.

One last item. Before you post the blast I'm certain you want to in response to this, read it out loud to yourself. Then ask, "How would I feel if somebody said this to me?" If your reply is, "Not very happy." (or words to that effect), then you need to do some serious thinking about the subject.

You're better than what you wrote above. It's time to show that.

(BTW, in person I'd be even meaner.)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Colonel, chill, and that's an order. Jackson expressed an opinion, so damn what? Take a chill pill, have a long soak, tune your radio to a classical music station and zone out. You can either develop a thick skin, or you can get out of the biz.

You are denying yourself some good RPG stuff because of what the company owner said of your favorite game. That I find short-sighted. It also shows a lack of world experience you would do well to correct. In other words, your snit is hurting nobody but you.

So he hurt your feelings. Big deal. You can either get over it, or you can let it fester and ruin your life. Holding a vendetta over what somebody says aint worth the time.

One last item. Before you post the blast I'm certain you want to in response to this, read it out loud to yourself. Then ask, "How would I feel if somebody said this to me?" If your reply is, "Not very happy." (or words to that effect), then you need to do some serious thinking about the subject.

You're better than what you wrote above. It's time to show that.

(BTW, in person I'd be even meaner.)

I don't understand what you're talking about. I was simply responding to your post, which seemed rather patronizing. As does this one. Vendetta? How do you get vendetta from what I posted? I think that's an unfair characterization, as is the "lack of world experience" nonsense. So Jackson had an opinion; so do I. Am I not allowed to express that opinion? Am I not allowed to maintain principles without being patronized?

By the way, in person I'd be a lot meaner also. So what does that prove? I suggest that if you dislike the fact that I post an opinion about something I feel strongly concerning, feel free to place me on your "ignore" list.

Better than what I wrote above? Huh? What you quoted doesn't seem all that dastardly to me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

One last item. Before you post the blast I'm certain you want to in response to this, read it out loud to yourself. Then ask, "How would I feel if somebody said this to me?" If your reply is, "Not very happy." (or words to that effect), then you need to do some serious thinking about the subject.

I suggest you do the same.

EDIT: Also, please re-read your initial post and think about how patronizing it was. Would you want someone to treat you similarly? How would you feel? The heat of your second message suggests your skin isn't impervious either.

 

[rounser]

So he hurt your feelings. Big deal. You can either get over it, or you can let it fester and ruin your life. Holding a vendetta over what somebody says aint worth the time.

Yeah. I suggest playing it cool until he comes over to your place, runs over your dog and pees in your cornflakes. Then get mad.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

I must say I'm excited by the possibilities of this new venture. SJG has proven it can run a worthwhile, high quality web magazine. The list of talent in the first issue is impressive, and certainly Dale has the smarts and experience needed to edit such a thing, as well as the needed familiarity with d20. And a generic d20 magazine with regular updates is a much needed device in the ever-expanding d20 game market.

As for Mr. Jackson, he may not like d20 either personally or as a gamer, but he's smart enough not to let that interfere with good business. I remember seeing him in a seminar at the World Con in Texas many years ago, when everyone was talking about how Magic: The Gathering had destroyed RPGs. He said he was reserving judgement – he didn't enjoy the game himself but saw it bringing in a lot of new people to hobby stores. I don't know what he thinks of it now, but I suspect that is a good description of his attitude toward any new adventure game phenomenon – reserving judgement.

If d20 crashes, he's out only the cost of running the website (no warehouse full of paper needing to be destroyed). If it does well, he'll be positioned to do more with d20, and have strong contacts with lots of experienced d20 writers (and have a good idea which ones actually come through with finished writing).

As for refusing to look at the site because SJ himself doesn't like d20 - well it’s a free country. But since the first four issues are free, why not go take a look while it costs you nothing and then decide?

(In the interests of disclosure, I have had an article published in Pyramid, and I plan to submit things to d20 weekly. On the other hand I am not currently in any agreements with any SJG employee, and have never done significant work for SJG,)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

*sigh*

Look, I don't care at all if SJ likes d20 or not. My objection is to him insulting d20 fans. The whole point is this: if any other merchant insulted you, how likely would it be that you would continue to patronize that merchant?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I'm going to let this subject rest, because I have a ton of stuff to do; reading and posting to the boards was a bit of a break for me. Some break. In summation, though, here is what I was trying to get across:

* I don't, as a general principle, do business with merchants who either directly or indirectly insult me. That may seem "unworldly" to some, but it seems like a reasonable thing to me. I can't imagine that anyone would do so unless they absolutely had to.

* I posted my opinion concerning this issue because there had been a fairly recent heated debate concerning it (see earlier this thread, both Psion's and my posts).

* I don't consider posting my opinion "stewing" about the issue, or having a "vendetta." It's simply my opinion, which I wanted to express.