Storming the castle door

[dcollins]

Ah, good ol' second edition, with it's Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll. Come to think of it, is there a set Strength DC which is meant to simulate that roll in 3.5e?

Looking at the numbers from 1st Ed., it should convert to about a Strength check, DC 35.

 

[Sabaron]

Hmmm... we're talking Half-Orc Barbarian Sorcerer here. Strength 18 base, +4 rage, +4 Bull's Strength, +2 Enlarge Person = 28 Strength. While enlarged, he can lift 2,400 pounds. If the portcullis weighs a "mere" 1344 pounds, it's hardly an obstacle to him. (BTW, Thornir, thanks for digging that up. ). Now the question is reduced to: Should the check be to see if he can lift it (he can), or a Strength check with a certain DC.

Hmm... the description of the portcullis that Thornir found doesn't describe any mechanisms that would make it harder to lift. Jamming a metal bar in the gears that lift it would only prevent the winch from working. I don't see why it would prevent the portcullis itself from raising.

So, unless someone can see a reason why it wouldn't work, he can do it. I was hoping it wouldn't work; this will only get himself and a sizable portion of his men killed, making things harder on the other PCs.

 

[AuraSeer]

Hmm... the description of the portcullis that Thornir found doesn't describe any mechanisms that would make it harder to lift.

That's because his description is from the real world, which doesn't have to deal with magical enhancements or the hit point system. No real individual can lift up a portcullis, nor survive the first vat of boiling lead that will get dumped on him when he tries it.

In the D&D world, monsters and enemies with high Strength are very common. Castle defenses would be designed to deal with them; a portcullis would either be built with a lot of extra weight, or have some mechanism to prevent lifting. Otherwise, the first army to hire a hill giant mercenary could take over a continent.

If you insist on using a "realistic" castle, then your barbarian can lift the gate with no trouble. But that's not in the spirit of the game, any more than using "realistic" enemies who uniformly die after one sword blow.

I'd say definitely require a Strength check of heroic difficulty-- DC 30 would put it within reach of your raging barbarian. One check lets him lift the portcullis, and an additional check each round lets him hold it open.

 

[Gez]

I'd say, a DC 30 check, the portcullis is raised three inches per point above 30. Reroll each round, but after the fifth round, start raising the DC by +1 every round to simulate strain and fatigue.

 

[Li Shenron]

It's quite funny how many replies are suggesting ways of COUNTERING the player's aim, even if Sabaron asked how to HELP them

So my players are planning on storming a castle next session (a Cheap Keep, from the Stronghold Builder's Guide). The first major obstacle is the gatehouse, with its sturdy wooden doors and portcullis. The wooden door has clear, simple rules to get past it (set HP and break DC), and so does the portcullis. One player, however, does not want to break the portcullis. He wants to lift it. Does anyone know how much one weighs? Or, if not, what a good DC would be to lift it? I was thinking of simply setting it to the Break DC, since I've been unable to find any weights.

Ah, good ol' second edition, with it's Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll. Come to think of it, is there a set Strength DC which is meant to simulate that roll in 3.5e?

Also, if anyone has some castle-storming tips for my PC's, I'm sure they'd appreciate it. They are 6th level, and have a small army along with them.

For the rule about lifting the portcullies, I would even skip a roll altogether, and simply use the "lifting & dragging" rules:

A character can lift as much as his or her maximum load over his or her head.

A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).

You can simply take a look at the PC's Strength and compare it with the portcullis weight MINUS its counterweight (if any). I would use the second sentence above to let the PC keep the portcullis lifted just enough for the others to pass under it; probably it wouldn't take such a long time for them to require the lifter a separate check (Constitution, or whatever) to stay in position, but if it gets too long you may take a look at the rules for extended efforts in the DMG (can't find them now in the SRD).

I would also allow for more PCs to help lifting the portcullis, and in this case I would simply sum together everybody's max weight liftable to help them succeed, and I guess they have to cooperate to reach the required weight.

 

[Darklone]

Bah. Halforc barbarian with Power Attack and Adamantine Axe simply hacks a tunnel through the wall, who needs to go through the guardhouse?

 

[Piratecat]

As Sabaron suggests, is there any reason why you shouldn't use the break DC for the lifting DC? Both accomplish the same thing, getting the portcullis out of the way, so you might as well make the numbers the same. That's what I do.

 

[DarkMaster]

I'd say, a DC 30 check, the portcullis is raised three inches per point above 30. Reroll each round, but after the fifth round, start raising the DC by +1 every round to simulate strain and fatigue.

And if he has Endurance ?