Strength of 0 and flying

[Slaved]

THe paralyzed condition says so. Frozen in place. Unable to move.

It must be nice to be unable to fall while Paralyzed then. This would be irrespective of the Character being able to Fly or not. Immunity to Teleportation is a fun side effect there too!

So does walking. And he can't do that.

Because the Character cannot move the appropriate limbs to do so.

The Fly Spell does not require any movement of any limbs.

This is the assertion I have trouble with. What are you basing it on?

What the Rules in the Players Handbook say. What are you basing yours on?

Where does it say that any body part is required to move in order to climb? My hands are free, and the Climb skill doesn't say I need to do anything with them.

You might want to read the Climb Skill again as it disagrees with you.

An arm that is unable to move is not a hand free to Climb.

That's my point exactly. But Slaved feels that flying can be movement without requiring you to move, so I'm asking him if the same applies to a Burrow speed. (I note that paralysis directly addresses Swim, so I withdraw that part of the question.)

Right. A flying creature that relies on wings falls, per the Paralyzed condition. A flying creature that doesn't rely on wings doesn't fall. But both types are affected by the other clauses of paralysis - "rooted to the spot", "frozen in place", "unable to move".

-Hyp.

If a Character can not move the limbs that are needed for a form of movement then that Character is unable to use that form of movement. The Fly Spell does not require any limbs to be moved in order to Fly with it so a Character is able to Fly regardless of its ability to move its limbs.

That does not sound complicated to me at all.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What the Rules in the Players Handbook say. What are you basing yours on?

The rules say a paralyzed character cannot move and is frozen in place. You're saying this doesn't apply to someone who is flying.

Shifting from the place you're frozen to is not a mental-only action. You're moving your body.

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

A flying creature that doesn't rely on wings doesn't fall.

As discussed here, that does not seem to be correct.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As discussed here, that does not seem to be correct.

The paralyzed condition states "A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls."

It makes no reference to a non-winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed falling.

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

The paralyzed condition states "A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls."

It makes no reference to a non-winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed falling.

Some points from earlier discussions (if desired):
1. One has to be conscious to utilize any of ones movement modes.
2. Lack of consciousness typically means one is treated similarly to an object in regard to natural laws.
3. The Rules of the Game says : “Spells such as fly and overland flight actually grant the subject a fly speed for a time, and creatures using the spells are subject to all the rules on flight discussed in Parts Three and Four.”
4. Side point: the rules also don't specifically mention that you fall prone when knocked unconscious (but this is still the case).
5. The RotG says “A creature with perfect maneuverability can hover as a free action and remain airborne”. Unconscious creatures cannot perform free actions.
6. Paralyzed creatures could still hover because the RotG says: "If the paralyzed creature has some form of movement that doesn't require it to move its body (such as a fly spell), it can use a move action to move, but it cannot take other sorts of move actions, such as drawing weapons."
7. The fly spell does not actually make you “weightless”, and the load you carry is still a big factor. All it does is give you a fly speed. Beings with a fly speed are still subject to the regular flying rules, which include falling when unconscious.
8. The fly spell says you "ascend at half speed and descend at double speed" this is the same for a normal winged flyer, and seems to indicate that the flyer is still subject to the laws of gravity
9. Normal flyers (both winged and non-winged) can fall. A flyer can even voluntarily freefall. RotG: "A flying creature can simply stop flying and allow itself to drop like a stone.". The fly spell does not imply that this capability is removed.
11. The core rules have falling rules that cover everything unless something specifically states it is not subject to the falling rules.
12. The normal flying rules appear applicable to the fly spell, except where the fly spell description specifically states differences because (as quoted above) “creatures using the spells are subject to all the rules on flight”
13. Absent specific exceptions (of which there are actually many, but not in regard to this issue) wingless flight is treated similarly to winged flight.
14. If the fly spell was exactly the same but made use of wings, the answer would be more evident to some (despite the fact that winged and wingless flight follow the same rules except where specified otherwise). Interestingly, the fly spell is used to make winged shields, winged boots and wings of flying, all of which could be viewed as normal winged flight.
15. From the MM: "Flight (EX): A beholder's body is naturally buoyant. This buoyancy allows it to fly at a speed of 20 feet. This buoyancy also grants it a permanent feather fall effect (as the spell) with personal range." This line likely wouldn't be present if all wingless flyers were naturally buoyant.
16. A flier is capable of falling regardless of maneuverability. From the Rules of the Game: "Your flying movement stops when you strike, forcing you to stall (even if you don't have a minimum forward speed) and fall straight down. If you're still conscious after the collision, you can make Climb check (DC = surface's DC + 20) to catch yourself and keep from falling."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Some points from earlier discussions (if desired):

Good and Perfect Manueverability don't have a minimum forward speed, and paralyzed isn't unconscious... what's the relevance?

Why would any of those points mean a paralyzed character with a Fly spell would fall?

Especially when one of the few points of difference between wingless and winged flight is that the Paralyzed condition says winged fliers are the ones who fall?

-Hyp.