Stronghold for PC's

[Saeviomagy]

As long as you incorporate the manor into a number of different aspects of the campaign, I don't think it would be a waste of money at all. On the other hand, if its just an RP prop where you hang out in your downtime, then it would be a waste of resources.

But the thing is that adventuring gear is with you in EVERY SINGLE COMBAT. Unless your adventurers never leave the house, lair gear is not.

Worse, if you make adventurers pay just to have walls and a roof, then you're literally giving them nothing for their money: after all, how many lairs do they clear out?

You could just let them sell off those lairs for play money (ie - cash that can't be exchanged for anything except a place to call their own). But again: if they can sell the lair for cash, they're best off buying magic items with that cash.

 

[Ryujin]

Have a second category of "treasure" rewards that cannot be used for magic weapons, armor, and such. This treasure does NOT need to be doled out in carefully measured parcels and can be much more influenced by the players' success or failure. Call it "stronghold points" if you like, at least to yourself, but represent it to the players as specific rewards...a magic ballista (NO, you can't mount it on a cart and take it to the dungeon), a dispel magic field, a permanent portal to a major market town (or to Sigil if you are at that level), the friendship of a neighboring lord, a local weather control ritual. Not every quest will yield stronghold points. In fact, most quests that do may be player-initiated.

Occasionally you can threaten the stronghold with disaster, forcing a quest to protect the stronghold points they have already accumulated. Now it's no longer goblins raiding an iron mine, it is goblins raiding YOUR iron mine.

That's a very good idea and it would tend to stress role play over roll play. The devotion of local peasant villagers isn't exactly something that you can put a gold piece value on, but it can certainly have tangible benefits. While you're away someone is stocking your cellars and cutting back the weeds (a scythe is good for more than just taking off heads). The local lord might have patrols sweep by every couple of days when your away, just to make sure that his friends' stuff is safe.

I was going to eventually just task an Undead Servitor to keep whatever we get clean, but for some reason our party's Radian Servant objects to me even knowing that ritual

 

[LostSoul]

One thing you could do is to make sure that the stronghold gives back more than what you initially invest in it. You could do that mechanically (gold in the form of taxes) and/or purely fiction-based (a safe place to rest, people who watch out for you, status and reputation, etc.).

 

[Then]

I would use Skill Challenges for expansion/upkeep on the castle.

I also like to give permnament structures as rewards. It comes with obligations for the Players, that most do not think about. Just like giving a title to one or more players, it is a garaunteed way to have plot lines access

 

[Belorin]

Both 2E and 3E had guides for building strongholds, 2E had the Castle Guide and 3E had the Stronghold Builders Guide.
Both provided rules for finding and clearing land, cost of materials and staffing.
Both were very rule orientated, but can be a good source for ideas.


Bel

 

[UngeheuerLich]

IIRC there was a stronghold for PC in the 90´s. Based on original D&D rules...

 

[Flipguarder]

There's the Stronghold builder's handbook from 3.5.

It doesn't seem too incredibly hard to convert.

 

[Seirun]

IMO, charging the PCs for this stuff is a very bad idea. The game is balanced around the assumtion that the PCs spend all their money on combat or adventure-oriented items. If they go spending significant amounts of money on non-adventure stuff (especially things that have ZERO game influence) the balance will start to fail.

I'd suggest you just have the PCs say what they want built, and then assume that things all cancel out. If they're really desperate to spend money, make sure you recompense them for it, so that they're not really spending it at all.

I must be doing something wrong, because my PCs have huge surplus of money. They just don't buy anything that's not absolutely needed. They are able to camp in the forest just to save some money (rooms cost 5sp, you know). And I suppose (hope) they would like to spend part of their wealth to create/improve their home so they won't be travelling around the world with 40k gp.

@ On Puget Sound: I will probably go with your "stronghold points" idea, thanks.

 

[Dr_Sage]

Lots of good ideas above.

My 2 cents:

1- If is just a reinforced place where they can keep their treasure and where "quest givers" can find them, no worries.

It would cost like 10 GP per week or so for maintence, includind a couple of servants.


2 - If its a big area, at least some of the PCs should be considered nobles, with rights over the families that live nearby. The land should be self-sustainning, the PCs are fair and just. You can just rule that the incomes/tributes from the villagers/farmers covers the castle's maintence, including dozens of servants, guards and the like.


Quite frankly I suggest testing option 1 before trying option 2, in no less tham Paragon level.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I would drive it all based mainly on skill challenges, at least for something like a stronghold where the character has land, peasants, whatever that they can manage. Let them simply execute a fairly straightforward skill challenge every so often, say whenever they want to do something with their stronghold or something significant happens with it, or every year if nothing else. This will just basically determine how well the character carried out whatever lordly function was involved.

I would grade success:

Dismal failure - You have a serious problem. The peasants are revolting, the new tower you just built was faulty and collapsed, etc. Either you can live with the problem, throw gold at it, or fix it yourself. Depending on what you were attempting to accomplish this could be time for the DM to introduce a plot hook.

Failure - OK, things aren't going as well as could be expected. Maybe the local estates aren't so well managed and lost some money, etc. Some money could be thrown at the problem, or you can live with it (maybe you can't afford proper castle maintenance this year, the DM can determine what exactly this entails).

Success - Things are fine. The place pays for itself, everyone is happy, the new tower is all spiffy and there were no problems raising money to build it, etc.

Acquiring such a place doesn't involve money. It involves skill challenges and/or other DM provided means. Skill challenges and RP would let you say convince the local King to let you build a castle in an unsettled area, find pioneers willing to help build it and found a village, etc. The point is, money isn't likely to be a big factor. You promise some peasants some land, they work for you. You get the land from the King to start with, etc. If you want some extra spiffy special features, then you have to say get the dwarves to agree to send over a few of their guys to build those for you (and of course they need a favor done in return). If the PCs WANT to substitute money for some part of this, by all means let them, it is their choice.

The same process should work for smaller establishments as long as they would be expected to be self sustaining. A farm, thief's guild, temple, etc would fall into that category. A wizard could build a tower and sell his services or teach, etc. If the thing doesn't have any means of support, or the PCs aren't willing to RP dealing with that, then there can still be options for acquisition that are cash neutral. Inheritance, grant, seizure, etc. The trick then is upkeep. How do you rationalize that? If its not a big place, then just don't worry about it. A 2k gp house on the edge of town might cost the character 50 or 100 gp a year to keep up. Its like bar tabs, just don't worry about it.