D&D General Structural Flaw of the D&D Combat System

Larnievc

Hero
After playing RPGs for several years and attempting to design my own adventures, RPG systems, and homebrew rules, I've noticed a structural flaw in D&D combat that detracts from the excitement: the suspense curve is inverted. The optimal strategy for a D&D fight is to inflict as much damage as possible early on to quickly kill the monster(s), and the rules make it very easy to do so.

As a result, players tend to use their biggest resources, such as high-level spells and limited-use abilities, as early as possible if they perceive the monster as a threat. They try to avoid using any limited resources if they think the monster(s) pose no threat. This leads to front-loaded (boss) fights where all the big cool stuff happens at the beginning, and if the fight drags on, it devolves into a slugfest where the characters spam cantrips and make normal weapon attacks. The dragon, for example, often gets killed by a normal melee attack or an eldritch blast rather than the lightning bolt or the fighter's eight attacks with their action surge.

This is often less true for monsters, as they usually have recharge abilities for their big attacks.

As a result, the suspense curve for players is inverted because if they don't use the optimal strategy, the fight becomes more challenging for them.

To make (boss) battles more exciting and to encourage players to use bigger abilities later in the fight, we need to change something on the design level. One possible mechanic that came to my mind involves giving classes abilities or feats that charge up during combat. For the first two or three rounds, a character would engage in mundane activities like making normal attacks or using cantrips, charging up their special ability. Then, on round three, they can use their special ability to inflict more damage. They must then recharge again. This would create a dynamic where the fight starts small and ends big, rather than vice versa.

I have provided some examples as a proof of concept, but they are not perfect or balanced yet. They are merely intended to illustrate what I envision:

Fighter:
So, let's say a fighter has a special attack called Coup de Grace. It is a special attack, that targets a weakness of a creature, doing double the damage on a hit.
It would read something like that as rules:

Charges:
When you just take the normal attack action (including extra attacks) on your turn, you get a charge point (name is up for debate). You can accumulate charge points up to an maximum equal to your proficiency bonus.
You can spend Charges to activate special abilities as a bonus action:
True Strike (2 Charges):
You studied the movement of your enemy. All the attacks of your next attack action have advantage.
Coup de Grace (3 Charges):
You figured out the weakness of your enemy. You are able to attack the creatures weak spots. Until the beginning of your next turn, that creature is vulnerable (taking double damage) on all attacks from you.

Wizard:
Charges:
When you only cast cantrips on your turn and no leveld spells, you get a charge point (name is up for debate). You can accumulate charge points up to an maximum equal to your proficiency bonus. You can spend Charges to activate special abilities as a bonus action:
Overpowered spell (2 charges):
The next spell you casts counts as a level higher.
Adapted spell (3 charges):
You figured out the vulnerabilities of the enemy creature. It gets vulnerability against the next spell you cast against it.


With such rules in play, without changing anything else, suddenly it makes sense use the big abilities later in the battle and not at the beginning, so you don't start the fight with an explosion but end it in one.

The biggest problem I see so far is, that it collides with Kipoints and sorcery points pretty hard. Especially the sorcery points of the sorcerer take up a similiar design space.

What do you guys and girls think? Is this something feasible? Did somebody try something similiar? Does somebody has developed other solutions?
I dunno man, you’re describing a Dragon Ball fight progression. PC should be professionals who don’t take chances.

For a Gladiator who is wowing the crowd power abilities sound great but there is a lot of showmanship in gladiatorial fights.

Not so much in grim life or death struggles.
 

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Oofta

Legend
Like others, I don't see a big issue. At least not one that can't be handled in other ways. Some have already been mentioned.
  • send enemies in waves, with cannon fodder going in first.
  • have the waves come from multiple directions, potentially using cannon fodder as a distraction.
  • Even if it's not waves, have enemies attack from multiple directions.
  • use illusions to similar effect.
  • occasionally have a lot of lower lethality fights. Limit rest opportunities (this can be a whole other thread).
  • make the environment important to the fight.
  • don't sweat it if the PCs occasionally have an "I win" button to push.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I dunno man, you’re describing a Dragon Ball fight progression. PC should be professionals who don’t take chances.

For a Gladiator who is wowing the crowd power abilities sound great but there is a lot of showmanship in gladiatorial fights.

Not so much in grim life or death struggles.
Its a question of how much fantasy do you want in your fantasy? Do you want fights like they have in the movies, a long more draw out affair. Or do you want realistic fights where duels are often settled in seconds?
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Making fights more cinematic/exciting is one of the reasons that I changed the 0HP rules to have the "Slowed" rather than "Unconscious" condition when at 0HP (and the condition remains until PC makes a DC19 Con save while they are above 0 HP). What this has meant for big combats is that there is usually at least 1-2 PCs with the condition at the end of the fight, making the party scramble to both keep them alive and still inflict damage on the monsters. Cinematically, this models the bloodied combatant who keeps on fighting while at the edge, and has made big fights all the more exciting.
 

Larnievc

Hero
Its a question of how much fantasy do you want in your fantasy? Do you want fights like they have in the movies, a long more draw out affair. Or do you want realistic fights where duels are often settled in seconds?
I’m hoping my next campaign will be Dark Sun so the power up style of fighting is something I’m in favour of in a gladiatorial setting.
 

Larnievc

Hero
To make (boss) battles more exciting and to encourage players to use bigger abilities later in the fight, we need to change something on the design level.
Just a thought but a player might use lower level spells/abilities to burn through legendary resistances and then unload the nukes.
 

In my experience, having smaller groups or mobs of minions involved can change how the PC’s approach a bigger fight. Or having something to do during the encounter other than engaging the enemy helps get away from the slog for one or more players. Something I want to implement more is adding timers to encounters. Along the lines of, “In 2 rounds, more hobgoblins are coming through the door.”

For those less significant fights, honestly, once the tables have turned in favour of the PC’s, having the bad guys flee or simply ending the combat by saying, “You mop up the rest of the skeletons with ease,” skips the slog and gets everyone back to the juicer bits of the game. I’ve done the latter plenty of times, maybe giving the bad guys one last parting shot before they are destroyed, and there’s no complaints.

I think it’s also important that monsters unload everything within the first two rounds, otherwise they are likely not going to have a chance to use their cool powers.
 

MarkB

Legend
As a result, players tend to use their biggest resources, such as high-level spells and limited-use abilities, as early as possible if they perceive the monster as a threat. They try to avoid using any limited resources if they think the monster(s) pose no threat. This leads to front-loaded (boss) fights where all the big cool stuff happens at the beginning, and if the fight drags on, it devolves into a slugfest where the characters spam cantrips and make normal weapon attacks. The dragon, for example, often gets killed by a normal melee attack or an eldritch blast rather than the lightning bolt or the fighter's eight attacks with their action surge.
One existing mechanic that does counter some of this is legendary resistances. Experienced parties will strike a fine balance when fighting a legendary opponent, whereby they commit resources just sufficient to provide a meaningful threat to the foe, such that the foe will commit to using its legendary resistance to counter it, but they will hold off on using their really big guns until after those resistances are gone.

In extending this, it might be better to concentrate more upon the target creature needing its defenses to be worn down, rather than introducing charge-up mechanics for the PCs.

As a for-instance, maybe a creature might be heavily armoured (natural or worn) over its vital areas such that critical hits scored against it deal no additional damage, losing that feature once it becomes bloodied (half hit points), so that paladins may be tempted to hold off on some of their smites and fighters to hold off on their action surges until the creature reaches that state.
 


Yora

Legend
I thought resource management and attrition was the whole point of D&D combat?
That was 40 years ago.

Resource management was abandoned in the mid-80s in favor of scripted set-piece scenes that form a coherent pre-written story.

The situation that players throw out all their best abilities at the start of a fight and then go through less and less powerful and interesting option comes from the simple fact that they don't need to save anything for later and that they have the confidence that they can not lose the fight. If they play really poorly, the GM will fudge things so the pre-written story can continue as the script demands.

Everything is completely different when the PCs have to fight for their lives and also will have to fight their way back out of dangerous places. There is a tension and hesitance to use all your best powers at the start because you really might need them later. As the fight progresses and things don't look good, using the really powerful guns now instead of saving them for later becomes increasingly attractive and ultimately urgent. We won't be able to fight our way back up to the surface if we die right here and now.

The great majority of problem with D&D is that it stopped wanting to be a dungeon crawling game 40 years ago, but also always wanted to maintain the appearance of still being the same game.
 

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