Stuff I want (From you 3pp People)

[Rechan]

Has anyone created a Sandbox world so that someone could run a "West Marches" game 4E style?

Wouldn't a published sandbox just be a lot of delves attached to a single setting?

 

[MichaelSomething]

Wouldn't a published sandbox just be a lot of delves attached to a single setting?

It would also have a large hex map, random encounter tables, enhanced exploration rules, and explanations/advice on how to run a sandbox game.

 

[Scribble]

Well, what I'd like to WRITE, I can't because of the GSL. I'd like to update my Before Level One book for 4e. Characters in 4e start as Heroes. My Before Level One book would provide for gaming at the fresh off the farm level that 4e doesn't handle.

Why not?

I'm also still waiting for non-fantasy 4e stuff. But since people aren't making class/race books, this just isn't happening.

So write them?

I want alternate magic systems. Classes with alternative power structures. 4e is very cookie cutter and the GSL ensures that it stays that way. There's no innovation. WotC has made changes to the way some powers "violate" the given power structure. Are those changes in GSL? Can anyone else do that? What little innovation there is cannot come from 3pps.

Sure it can. You just have to make a product that's good enough that I will want to overcome my annoyance of it not being in the CB or the compendium as a whole.

Publish a bunch of random feats or powers that maybe change things in a minor way? Sorry that won't cut it.

Do something REALLY cool, and I'll be interested. What that really cool is I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it, so if you think you have that idea, go for it.

Can't guarantee I'll like it, but hey that's life.

4e would be a better game if more people could play with its rules. But they can't. If you look at how 3e evolved, with branch products like d20 Modern, Monte's Arcane Unearthed, Mearles' Iron Heroes, Mutants and Masterminds, WotC's Bo9S, Elements of Magic, Pathfinder, Trailblazer, etc. you can see how it became 4e. These products took the existing framework and said "Look what else d20 can do!" The GSL slammed the door on that kind of innovation. Only WotC can trickle out changes to "Look at what 4e can do." And that is sad. Can you conceive of all the ideas not imagined for 4e? That is what I want to see from 3pp. That is why some side-adventure delves, some minor NPCs with insignificant quests, some new terrains just do not, cannot and will not excite me. They are trifles. Sure, someone could do them well. They could be the Norman Rockwell of RPG products. I want Salvador Dali.

All the GSL really says is you can't change the existing elements. You can make up your own, and you can add to it though, so go ahead make something cool.

Again though, it has to be good enough for me to want to ignore the CB.

It's sort of like Iron Heroes to me- I couldn't really use any of the 3e stuff I already had when I got IH, even though it was built on the d20 framework... I didn't care though because IH was cool enough on its own.

So make something cool. Make something that makes me think, screw the CB this things is WAY to frikkin awesome. Guys let's play X!

Or don't- no skin off my back.

All THIS thread is really for though, is to let anyone who is a 3pp that wants my money know what my immediate wants are.

 

[Mark]

All THIS thread is really for though, is to let anyone who is a 3pp that wants my money know what my immediate wants are.

How many 3PP writing 4E stuff (setting aside generic stuff like dungeon tiles) still exist? Who do you buy new stuff from now?

 

[Obryn]

I'd like to update my Before Level One book for 4e. Characters in 4e start as Heroes. My Before Level One book would provide for gaming at the fresh off the farm level that 4e doesn't handle.

Gosh, I'd love to see something like that. It's an obvious design hole that's perfect for 3pp support.

Sure it can. You just have to make a product that's good enough that I will want to overcome my annoyance of it not being in the CB or the compendium as a whole.

Bingo. This is what I've been saying, too.
(1) Make it cool and interesting enough that I am encouraged to use it,
(2) Lessen the annoyance by giving us stuff the Character Builder would. A free, printable Power Card PDF would go a loooong way towards this.

-O

 

[Scribble]

How many 3PP writing 4E stuff (setting aside generic stuff like dungeon tiles) still exist? Who do you buy new stuff from now?

Don't know don't care?

Right now, the only company I've gotten 3pp stuff from has been Goodman games, because they've been making stuff I want, but I would buy the types of stuff I mentioned from anyone that wanted to publish it. (Provided they made a decent product, you know editing-wise and such.)

I think a lot of the reason I wasn't buying stuff from other 3pp earlier was because many of them seemed to be stuck in what I consider the 3e business model.

It's not a bash on the 3e business model or anything, just I feel like rather then really look into what 4e players need/want a lot of the 3pp just tried to continue "as is," and then complained that 4e didn't have use for 3pp... Which isn't true in my opinion, they just have different wants/needs.

In this thread I'm trying to communicate what my wants/needs ( as a 4e DM) are.

If someone out there wants to take advantage of that info awesome... If not, well my money will be used elsewhere.

 

[Mark]

I'm wondering, how many of the types of things that people might be persuaded to buy from 3PPs are even allowed under the GSL? Also, I've asked this elsewhere and haven't read a response to it, has the 4E SRD been kept up to date for those who might be interested in creating GSL 3PP stuff?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Facing the Fair Folk

I would absolutely adore a book dealing with Fey. And I do not mean a book that just says "Here's some stats, have fun". No, I want Fey psychology discussed. How do they act? How do they SEE the world? The PLayers? How about some rules for a fairy revelry (where people can be trapped for all time if they stay at the party and partake of drink/food or dance). Making deals with the fey. Riddles, encounters of non-combat sorts (a pixie prank, challenging a powerful fey to a musical duel).

There is a long thread on this topic (3.x based) and an article in Dragon Roots #1 (3.5 based) on this topic. Although not 4e, a lot of the information is relatively edition neutral.

In 4e, I would devise not one, but a series of Skill Challenges, each of which impacts the options of subsequent SCs down the line (possibly opening up some SCs that the PCs might not otherwise have access to).

Most chains of SCs should lead into an encounter where the PCs must make decisions that are not based on die rolls. A few might lead into combat. Catastrophic failure leads to some form of faerie curse affecting the PCs (requiring a quest while under the effects of the curse to clear), while great success leads to some real and lasting benefit.

I have a thread on EN World that contains some 3.x fey encounters that might give ideas for 4e encounters in a similar vein.


RC

 

[Scribble]

I'm wondering, how many of the types of things that people might be persuaded to buy from 3PPs are even allowed under the GSL? Also, I've asked this elsewhere and haven't read a response to it, has the 4E SRD been kept up to date for those who might be interested in creating GSL 3PP stuff?

Haven't checked the GSL, so I don't know how up to date it is. (I'm not a 3pp so aside from passing interest when it first came out, It doesn't really concern my everyday life much...)

As for if it can be made- I'm pretty sure everything I have asked for can be.

 

[tyrlaan]

Sure it can. You just have to make a product that's good enough that I will want to overcome my annoyance of it not being in the CB or the compendium as a whole.

Publish a bunch of random feats or powers that maybe change things in a minor way? Sorry that won't cut it.

Do something REALLY cool, and I'll be interested. What that really cool is I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it, so if you think you have that idea, go for it.

Can't guarantee I'll like it, but hey that's life.

All the GSL really says is you can't change the existing elements. You can make up your own, and you can add to it though, so go ahead make something cool.

Again though, it has to be good enough for me to want to ignore the CB.

It's sort of like Iron Heroes to me- I couldn't really use any of the 3e stuff I already had when I got IH, even though it was built on the d20 framework... I didn't care though because IH was cool enough on its own.

So make something cool. Make something that makes me think, screw the CB this things is WAY to frikkin awesome. Guys let's play X!

This is exactly what I'm hoping to pull off.

Well, to be honest, I'm writing what I need to write to be happy while writing it. I'm hoping to pull off the above so some actual money comes my way as a result.