Stuff I want (From you 3pp People)

[Scribble]

I've seen a few threads about how 4e is bad for 3pp (in that 4e players tend to want to stick to core especially because of the DDI and the CB and stuff) so I want to talk about stuff that I, as a 4e DM/Player would like to see from 3pp.

First off, I DON'T want stuff that competes with WoTC. I don't want new races, new powers, new classes, new magic items etc... I don't need it, because 1. it won't be easy to use it with the CB, and 2. I don't know how well it will mesh with WoTC's future releases. While you might have gone out of your way to make sure it works well with what's out there, and doesn't create any problems, WoTC most assuredly is NOT taking your stuff into account when it releases its next product.

I also don't need a reworking of what's already out there so much. Think you have a better way to handle the powers system? Hey maybe you do, but chances are it's going to be ignored by me.

(The exception is rituals, give me more rituals!)

That said, I want unique stuff. Remember Monte Cook's Book of Eldrich Might? It has intelligent spells in it, and I thought that was really a cool idea. Same for his take on intelligent weapons... These are things that aren't going to come up that often, and they're cool enough that I won't mind if it's somewhat of a pain to use them with the CB.

Also remember rituals from above? I love rituals... I'd like to see ways to work them in different ways. Like maybe intelligent rituals? Or new types of rituals... Gimmike fun ritual stuff as long as it won't mess with the CB too much...

I also want things like cities, and campaign worlds and kingdoms, but I DON'T want a lot of new classes, powers, paragon paths, and epic destinies... I want fluff, and descriptions, and at best I want to know how the existing classes and such fit within the city. If you decide to outfit the thieves guild in your city with an entirely new paragon path though... It's probably going to get ignored. (I even tended to do this in 3e as well. We played in the scarred lands setting, but almost never used the scarred lands crunch.)

I would also like something like a book of "minor" quests. Things I can throw in as "side jobs" for the PCs to pick up while on the bigger quests. Basically a big book of minor activities (On your way past Freetown deliver this note to Gruman the Dwarven smith...) I can randomly plop into the game to bring it to life.

I also want a bunch of skill challenges. As many as you can think of. A big huge book filled with skill challenges for various situations would be awesome.

I also wouldn't mind a big book of traps, and a big book of usable terrain like in DMG2 (not sure if you can release that stuff.)

I'd also like just plain terrain elements. Give me unique things I can put into a dungeon to add color or give bonuses or penalties... (Like the stuff in the last Dungeoncraft... give me a TON of that stuff I can brows through and pick from...)

I also wouldn't mind a big book of vehicles.

In short, don't try to fight what WoTC is doing. Don't try to be "better..." try to enhance what WoTC is giving me.

 

[Obryn]

I'll echo that I'd love to see an awesome campaign setting.

I'll even go so far as to say I'd be happy to see new classes & races, so long as they are specific to the aforementioned awesome campaign setting. While it will probably never get into the CB, you - as a 3pp - could make them a lot more appealing. First and foremost, print some power card templates for photocopying. Better yet - make them available as a PDF download. Second, make us understand their place in the world - show how they're an essential and integral feature to the setting, and get my players excited to try one.

I'm not a major purchaser of adventures, and I really don't need more generic player-oriented stuff. Unique settings and DM tools will win me over.

The only third-party products I've bought so far have been Fiery Dragon's PDF counter packs for the various WotC modules. And they've been amazingly helpful, I have to say. (Good job, Klaus!)

I want to buy more, though. I just really don't need more adventures or player-oriented stuff right now.

-O

 

[Scribble]

Well, for me, especially now with the CB... All those new classes and stuff just take up space, so I'd rather they fill it with something I'd care about. Instead of classes and powers and junk I'll ignore anyway.

 

[HorusZA]

Completely agree: New Powerz, Classes, Races, Feats, etc. bore the hell out of me. It was the torrents of this crap that flooded the market when d20 was big and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

What I want is:
Interesting Magic Items. Not the vanilla kit in AV1 and 2 but basically the stuff that WotC isn't allowed to due to some weird self imposed Feng Shui.

Broad Brush-stoke non-Dungeon Adventures: I don't want "read this boxed text to the players" stuff, tactical maps, stats of every monster and so on. Just give me the adventure outline with some evocative large-scale area maps... more adventure, less numbers.

I wouldn't mind something along the lines of "Unearthed Arcana"... lots of alternative mechanics that could really break the system. I personally don't care much about perfect game balance and don't mind experimenting with mechanics.

In short, I think that in the pursuit of game balance WotC has become very conservative in what they're willing to play around with to the point where some of their stuff has become a little bland (YMMV, etc.) A 3pp could explore areas that WotC themselves are unwilling to get involved with and produce some interesting material.

 

[Scribble]

In short, I think that in the pursuit of game balance WotC has become very conservative in what they're willing to play around with to the point where some of their stuff has become a little bland (YMMV, etc.) A 3pp could explore areas that WotC themselves are unwilling to get involved with and produce some interesting material.

Which I feel is fine/perfect. Let WoTC be mre conservative, which lets me know that when I buy a "core" product it will be for the most part balanced, so I can be the one to make the choice to unbalance the game. Let 3pp make stuff that is cool, but lets you know up front it's not trying to be balanced.

 

[Mean Eyed Cat]

I also completely agree with Scribble. I especially like the idea of a big book with minor activities. Or even more books similar to Dungeon Delve -- a book that I have used the heck out of.

 

[HorusZA]

Which I feel is fine/perfect. Let WoTC be mre conservative, which lets me know that when I buy a "core" product it will be for the most part balanced, so I can be the one to make the choice to unbalance the game. Let 3pp make stuff that is cool, but lets you know up front it's not trying to be balanced.

Exactly!
WotC can be the stuffy old English or Maths teacher while the 3pp's let you blow stuff up in the lab and take you on field trips to the red-light district.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

First off, I DON'T want stuff that competes with WoTC. I don't want new races, new powers, new classes, new magic items etc...

Also remember rituals from above? I love rituals... I'd like to see ways to work them in different ways. Like maybe intelligent rituals? Or new types of rituals... Gimmike fun ritual stuff as long as it won't mess with the CB too much...

I would also like something like a book of "minor" quests.

I also want a bunch of skill challenges.

I also wouldn't mind a big book of traps, and a big book of usable terrain like in DMG2 (not sure if you can release that stuff.)

I'd also like just plain terrain elements. Give me unique things I can put into a dungeon to add color or give bonuses or penalties... (Like the stuff in the last Dungeoncraft... give me a TON of that stuff I can brows through and pick from...)

In short, don't try to fight what WoTC is doing. Don't try to be "better..." try to enhance what WoTC is giving me.

I agree with the above portions, plus adventures (which I know some 3pp are already doing).

 

[weem]

Which I feel is fine/perfect. Let WoTC be mre conservative, which lets me know that when I buy a "core" product it will be for the most part balanced, so I can be the one to make the choice to unbalance the game. Let 3pp make stuff that is cool, but lets you know up front it's not trying to be balanced.

Yes please.

 

[Dragonhelm]

From what I'm gathering from this thread, folks seem to be wanting more DM tools from third parties, leaving the player tools to WotC/Character Builder.

So things like adventures, settings, monsters, and other things are the desired result.

Sound about right?