Stunned characters can't act. Can they take AoOs?

[Zaruthustran]

I posted a fun monk combo in another thread: Stunning Fist, which triggers Expert Tactician, which triggers Improved Trip, which triggers an attack at +4 against someone who is prone, denied his dex, -2 ac, and weaponless.

My question: if a target is stunned, does he get to take AoOs? Does he get to resist trips/grapples?

Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

Since the stunned character drops his weapons, and thus does not threaten squares, I'm guessing no AoOs from a stunned weapon-user.

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

But what about stunned animals/monks/things that still threaten after they drop whatever they're holding?

-z

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

No, a stunned critter cannot make ANY actions, including free actions, so no AoO.

 

[Caliban]

If you can't take an action, you can't attack.

If you can't attack, you don't threaten.

If you don't threaten, you can't make an AoO.

 

[Camarath]

If you can't take an action, you can't attack.

If you can't attack, you don't threaten.

If you don't threaten, you can't make an AoO.

Does this mean that after a characters takes all of the AoO that they are entitled to in a round they cease to threaten?

 

[Cedric]

In short...no

 

[Camarath]

In short...no

Could you explain to me why? I am willing the accept your statement at face value. But I would love to see the difference between the various reasons why one might not be able to attack and whether or not they allow you to threaten worked out in the rules.

 

[Rozman]

PHB pg. 137 "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action."

The "even when it's not your action" segment implies that you have the ability to take an action. When you lose the ability to take actions, you don't threaten.

I hate taking sentences apart like that, but when you see the list of other states below that prevent you from taking actions, I think it's the only way to interpret it.

If you are stunned, you cannot take any action (including a melee attack) until whatever point you become unstunned, so you don't threaten anything until you're unstunned. Even then, most folks will need to pick up/draw a new weapon in order to be a threat.

Other states will remove your ability to make attacks into adjacent squares as your action, including: cowering, dazed, fascinated, grappling, helpless, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified. Of course, unconscious and dying as well

If you've used your AoO, you're still eligible to take actions at some point, so you still threaten.

What I think is an interesting question is: Do you threaten while flat-footed? You lose your ability to make AoO and your Dex bonus. Neither of those is included in any definition of "threatening" I could find, and brings us back around to the "do you threaten when you're out of AoO."

Per the above definition, I'd have to say you do threaten when flat-footed as well.

That last bit doesn't seem right to me, though, so if anyone can find out why I'm wrong, please feel free

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

What I think is an interesting question is: Do you threaten while flat-footed? You lose your ability to make AoO and your Dex bonus. Neither of those is included in any definition of "threatening" I could find, and brings us back around to the "do you threaten when you're out of AoO."

The only point of threatening that I can see is the ability to get AoO's. If you have used all of your AoO's for the round then there is no longer any point of threatening, so no, you would not threaten. And if you can't take an AoO while flat-footed (unless you have Combat Reflexes) you don't threaten when flat-footed, otherwise you would be able to. This is, of course, just my opinion.

 

[Cedric]

Could you explain to me why? I am willing the accept your statement at face value. But I would love to see the difference between the various reasons why one might not be able to attack and whether or not they allow you to threaten worked out in the rules.

Sure, I can explain it...most of my answer is just basic common sense and intent of the rules though. Since you cannot take most actions while stunned, the intention of the rule is to prevent you from being able to attack. Especially an attack of opportunity which implies you are alert and attent to the current situation. No matter how the technicalities of this may be worded, I feel that the intent is crystal clear.

You only get "attacks of opportunity" because you are alert and aware of the changing battlefield and have the benefit of taking advantage of those opportunities.

I'll dig into the SRD and see if I can something more crunchy to explain this though...

Cedric

 

[Cedric]

From the 3.5 SRD:

Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

Seems clear to me, if you can't even take a Free Action and you drop what you are holding...you don't get to take attacks of opportunity.

Cedric