Stunning Fist Man

[James McMurray]

I would probably tick with straight monk if I were making a Stunning Fist character. If the DM allows any of the monk prestige classes that grant +1/level BAB they should be looked at.

You'd also want to look at getting 4 levels of fighter for the extra attack at 20th level and the 3 bonus feats. If the DM uses the monk multiclassing rules its much easier to do that since you can grab a couple fighter levels before 17th.

 

[Darklone]

My campaigns are humanocentric and usually lower than level 12... but I've seen more than one battle monk against fighter ending with a stunning fist (then trip, disarm, perhaps grapple...).

I second James' suggestion of four fighter levels. That extra attack and WS unarmed makes up for much that you would lose as straight monk. Hmm... Wuss monk hiding behind Tower Shield ?

 

[green slime]

The main disadvantage of following this route as a monk is the Stat requirements.

As it is all based on Wisdom modifier, you want to start with as high Wisdom as possible. This means you need Intiuative attack feat in order to be properly effective.

You still need a decent Dex (AC), Str (damage), and Con (hp). No Sanctified Ki Strike/Holy Ki Strike (Cha 15) for this lad.

In point-buy-terms, with 32 points to spend it gets thin very fast:

Str 14 (6 Points)
Dex 14 (6 Points)
Con 10 (2 Points)
Int 10 (2 points)
Wis 18 (16 points)
Cha 8 (0 points)

Personally I don't think I'd go the Sacred Vow route.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. I don't agree. Such a monk would NOT need a lot of strength since he hopes to keep his opponent stunned (then disarm, trip, grapple, etc.)

Related question: If you want to trip a stunned person... do you get any bonuses except the +2 to hit with the touch attack, or does he get any penalties???

 

[James McMurray]

Or you could go with:

Strength 12 (4 points)
Dexterity 14 (6 points)
Constitution 12 (4 points)
Intelligence 10 (2 points)
Wisdom 17 (13 points)
Charisma 11 (3 points)

Then all you need is a cloak of charisma +4 to get the Sanctified Ki Strike chain. At 4th level you bump your Wisdom (and thus your AC and save DC).

 

[Elric]

Don't forget that if you are playing a vow of poverty character (which you probably will be, or else you will never have enough feats for all of this), you can't get an item of +4 Charisma. For a vow of poverty character, I would go something like

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 14

Make sure to get intuitive attack...

You can put a point from level 4 into Charisma so that you can take the holy ki strike chain. 14 Con is really useful since you can't pick up ability buff items. I was thinking of having my exalted monk take Vow of Nonviolence, but the other players talked me out of it

 

[James McMurray]

Of course, if you've got VoP, you'll get stat boosts as you level anyway. IDHTBWM so I don't know how early yo could convert your 11 or 13 charisma to a 15. You already have to wait until level 10 (IIRC) to get sanctify Ki Strike, so it might not be a big deal to not have a 15 charisma until then anyway.

I would defintely recommend Wisom 17 instead of 16, because it means you get a full +1 at 4th level when you increase it.

 

[green slime]

I agree with James McMurray.

As you cannot acquire Sanctified Ki Strike until level 10, having 14 in Charisma for the first nine levels of your career is going to hurt. Because basically, it doesn't do anything.

On the other hand, Strength 14 exceeds Sanctified Ki Strike's ability to deal damage to most creatures, (still useful when fighting animals, vermin, and a host of other non-evil opponents), and is only exceeded by half a point of damage by that ability against undead and outsiders of the evil sort. The only real gain the feat allows is the penetration of damage reduction. Having a decent Strength score is also a boon when fighting creatures immune to your stunning attacks.

Having a higher Strength also allows for other options, which is never bad; you can resort to wielding weapons, and gain access to the Power Attack/Cleave feats, or Eagle Claw Attack, or Earth's Embrace (Str 15), should you be so inclined.

Stunning, then grappling and dealing double damage (Earth's Embrace) will lead to the combat being resolved quicker. Strength is still used to resolve grapples.

Personally, I'm more for having as high a Wisdom score as possible, in order to make those stunning attacks count (together with Intuitive Attack), and avoiding the Sacred Vow chain, but going for Pain Touch and/or Weakening Touch.

So feat progression may look like this:
Ability Focus (1st) (If allowed)
Stunning Fist (Free)
Improved Grapple (Human)
Combat Reflexes (Free 2nd)
Intuitive Attack (3rd)
Earth's Embrace (6th)
Improved Trip (Free 6th)
Weapon Focus [Unarmed](9th)
Pain Touch (12th)

 

[Elric]

Hmm... good point. I forgot about the level requirement on Holy Ki Strike. Still, you have a limited number of enhancement bonuses to your ability scores as a vow of poverty character, so you really want to avoid putting too many of them into charisma.

The problem with increasing strength is that it improves damage by a lot, especially at low levels, but if you want damage then strength should be your primary attribute. You may just have to choose between two of: cool exalted feats, dealing damage before level 10, and being really good at stun-attacks.

 

[green slime]

No, my plan would entail increasing Wisdom, for the attack bonus (Intuitive Attack) and Stun DC. This way, you would at least be assured of hitting, even if your opponent is immune to stunning.

Strength could be raised to 16 with gloves of strength, just enough to gain Earth's Embrace, and to provide enough advantage in those Strength checks against wimpy opponents. Lets face it, you will not be tripping or grappling many opponents with a 10 in Strength, at least if you roll dice like I do. Thus Strength becomes the secondary stat, with Con and Dex at tertiary level. Int and Cha are left to their fate.

I'd still avoid Vow of Poverty and the Sacred Vow. Somehow, I'd miss being able to tailor my arsenal to cover my present needs, and miss the ability to pull a fool'em from out of the bag of holding (or whatever).