Stupid New Item Creation Rules

Re: Living Greyhawk

heirodule said:
What really stinks is that Living Grehawk has decided that CL being a prerequisite is a good way to limit MIC and so will probably keep this the way it is without change.


I agree with them- it is a good way to limit MIC...

That's how I use it imc.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

dcollins said:

The designers disagree with you. According to Sean K. Reynolds ( http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56402 ):

I read all that, I don't see anywhere saying CL changes the price for ALL items. AFAIK, CL only changes the price when there are level-dependent abilities involved. So indeed, an item that bcasts fireball at will costs more at CL 10 then CL 5. A Ring of Protection +5, however, costs the same no matter whether it's CL 12 or CL 22, because CL has no effect on any of the item's powers.

Also, there are no mechanics stating so anywhere in the DMG AND a good majority of DMG items follow the formulas in the back.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

Hypersmurf said:


Aside from the higher cost... why would the "default" Caster Level be 7, then? ... unless it's because 6th level casters can't make them.

If there's no reason a 7th or higher level caster would ever make Bracers +1, the default Caster Level wouldn't be 7...

-Hyp.

Simply because <b>most</b> of the people who make them are 7th level ... ?

Caster Level means, only that of the most-commonly-found examples. Perhaps twice as many 7th level casters make these, as 6th, or 5th, or 4th, or 15th, and so on.

And 7th level casters might make them to <b>sell</b>, or hand out to one or another follower. It's not MUCH, but, how many NPC followers of 1st to 3d level have ANY magic items to speak of? And it's, what, a day's work and 40XP for the Wizard to make it? Said wizard is possibly making SCROLLS that cost more (4th level scroll with 7th caster level is 56XP and 1400gp, I do believe).

If it's not listed <b>as</b> a prerequisite, it is <b>not</b> a prerequisite. Occam's Razor, Hyp.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

If it's not listed as a prerequisite, it is not a prerequisite. Occam's Razor, Hyp.

But it is listed as a prerequisite. The argument is "Oh, they got that wrong again."

In both editions of the DMG, the line stating that the caster level is set by the item has appeared, pointing out that the creator must at least meet that caster level.

"No, the book is still wrong, despite that one never having been fixed in the DMG errata, the Main FAQ, or, indeed, the complete revision of the entire DMG" is something of a weak argument...

-Hyp.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

Hypersmurf said:
But it is listed as a prerequisite. The argument is "Oh, they got that wrong again."

Let's look at a few items from the SRD. I'll highlight the section that lists the prerequisites to make the item, and you can then show me where in those prerequisites a caster level is indicated:

Cloak of Charisma: This lightweight and fashionable cloak has a highly decorative silver trim. When in a character's possession, it adds a +2, +4, or +6 enhancement bonus to her Charisma score.
Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, eagle's splendor; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6); Weight 2 lb.

Medallion of Thoughts: This appears to be a normal pendant disk hung from a neck chain. Usually fashioned from bronze, copper, or nickel-silver, the medallion allows the wearer to read the thoughts of others, as with the spell detect thoughts.
Faint divination; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, detect thoughts; Price 12,000 gp.

Vestment, Druid's: This light garment is worn over normal clothing or armor. Most such vestments are green, embroidered with plant or animal motifs. When this item is worn by a character with the wild shape ability, the character can use that ability one additional time each day.
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph or wild shape ability; Price 10,000 gp

In both editions of the DMG, the line stating that the caster level is set by the item has appeared, pointing out that the creator must at least meet that caster level.

And several of the creatores have said it's not supposed to be there, and they have NFC why it still is. They said this for 3.0, and AFAIK, they're saying it again for 3.5 ...
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

And several of the creatores have said it's not supposed to be there, and they have NFC why it still is. They said this for 3.0, and AFAIK, they're saying it again for 3.5 ...

Yup. And when the 3.5 errata come out (oh, the errata!), it might finally be changed.

Maybe.

-Hyp.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid New Item Creation Rules

Anubis said:
I read all that, I don't see anywhere saying CL changes the price for ALL items. AFAIK, CL only changes the price when there are level-dependent abilities involved...

See, that's exactly my point. You also don't see caster level being allowed as a variable for "other" items in the DMG. Your "AFAIK" is just a guess that's not addressed in the rules.

Not only do the designers seem to think caster level is not a requirement, at the same time they assume that some variable pricing by DMs is required, and that's all equally off-book. The proper fix requires quite a bit more thought and rules alteration than just "no, caster level is not really a requirement".
 

if you don't take OUR word for it, you should at least take the word of Monte Cook and Sean K Reynolds as been quoted and linked several times in this tread.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/3point5comments.html
http://montecook.com/review.html

they designed the game, but theyre weren't part of the final editing.

if you don't want Caster Level as a Pre-Requisite, then DON'T make it one. and you'll have Monte and Sean K.R. to back up your decision.

it's YOUR GAME folks.
 

Let's not forget that WotC has officially said that CL is not a prerequisite. Not sure why it's still in the book, but any which way, it's official. CL is NOT a prerequisite, as stated directly by WotC.
 

IanB said:
Given that Andy wasn't the main guy for the DMG revision I would guess this is an incorrect assumption.
Agreed; a simple oversight on someone's part is much more likely.
 

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