Stupid player decisions + bad dice rolls = dead PC

Buttercup

Princess of Florin
So at today's session, one of the PCs died. Earlier in the same session, an encounter with orcs very nearly ended up as a TPK, except that I fudged a bunch of rolls. Here's what happened:

The party, who was travelling in the mountains, was ambushed by orcs. They were travelling along a 20 ft wide path, with a high ledge on their left, and a sheer drop off on their right. It was snowing, so visibility was low. When I asked for spot checks, no one rolled higher than a 6. The 12 orcs rapelled down the cliff and surprised the party. 5 orcs in front, and the rest ranged along side. The orcs proceeded to roll natural 20 after natural 20, while the party was rolling 1s, 2s, 3s, and once a 10 (which, given that players BAB, actually hit). In the first round two PCs were in negative hit points. By the third round, another one was dying, and only two orcs had taken any damage at all. So I started fudging big time. Orc warriors that I had statted with 20 hit points, suddenly had 8. I "stopped" rolling criticals. They all managed to survive, but only because the orcs ignored any PC who was down, and concentrated on hacking up the ponies. By the end, I think the party had 12 hit points left among 7 PCs. Ok, so I was feeling a bit shaken. I mean, they were only orcs! I didn't expect this to be a tough battle, since the party has been mowing through everything with ease. Too much ease, frankly. Well, not any more, eh?

So they finally make it to the village of Duvik's Pass. They had helped the town out about 6 weeks previously, and were considered heroes. So when the gate guard told them that some scruffy guy had been asking about a party travelling with a woman and a newborn, and then two days later who should show up but our good friends, with a woman and a newborn, well, the bard and the monk/cleric decided to go check the guy out while the rest of the party high tailed it to the temple with mother and child.

So these two idiots inquire about the guy at the inn, then go upstairs to investigate. He is sleeping in his locked room. Do they go and get a meat shield? Nooooo. They knock on the door and ask to talk to him. And then they pick a fight with him. And guess what? He rolls a critical in the first round, and drops the bard to -6 HP. See, he had Weapon Focus, Longsword and Improved Critical, Longsword. The cleric would have died too, but he ran out of the room and down the stairs while he still had 5 hit points left. The bad guy ran after him with his longbow, but the village watch didn't take kindly to the sight of a guy shooting arrows at a fleeing hero, so they knocked him out.

What's my point? Well, the monk/cleric is an idiot. He almost died three times in one session, because he charges into battle with no weapons & no armor. If he had died, I might not have minded so much. He actually deserves it. And for a PC with a wisdom score of 16, he is being played remarkably like a PC with a wisdom score of 8. Clearly I'll have to talk to the player about this. But anyway, he didn't heal his companion, instead choosing to save himself and let her die. I don't think that's the action of a good character. I mean, he cast sanctuary on himself so he could rummage in his pack for a healing potion, which he then drank himself, instead of curing the bard. Then he threw something at the villain, thus cancelling the sanctuary spell, and ran. He could have swapped out another spell for a CLW and healed the bard before negating the sanctuary spell. So, I have a PC who isn't being roleplayed according to his ability scores and alignment. (This is my most experienced player, so he can't use that excuse.)

And now, I also have a dead bard, who until today, never did anything stupid. That one dumb decision killed her.

The rest of the party blames the monk/cleric, even though they don't know the details. They figure that he's always doing stupid things, and the bard never did, so he must be responsible for her death.

Do the other DMs out there grieve a little when a PC dies?
 

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Take them to the wood shed. I think they will figure out they need to think more before running into death BUT you may have a burn out player on your hands. Someone kills their character or disrupts the game because they do not like it or they don't like the game. Take the time to talk to the player and check or it could keep going on.
 

No, I don't grieve. I take advantage of a great situation. IMC, death is never final. It just gives a better chance to add plot and complicate things.
 

Hand of Evil said:
Take them to the wood shed. I think they will figure out they need to think more before running into death BUT you may have a burn out player on your hands. Someone kills their character or disrupts the game because they do not like it or they don't like the game. Take the time to talk to the player and check or it could keep going on.
The interesting thing about this player (I mean the monk/cleric) is that he recently moved 2 hours away, so we all assumed that he would quit. But he says that he really wants to keep playing with us, and so he continues to show up. He actually slept on someone's couch last night so he could be here for the game today.

Actually, I'm coming to the conclusion that he isn't a very good roleplayer. He's really just playing himself. A bit hyper, a bit selfish, and a low wisdom stat.

I'm not reading anything into the bard's death, except a momentary lapse of reason. But I'll ask anyway.
 

Crothian said:
No, I don't grieve. I take advantage of a great situation. IMC, death is never final. It just gives a better chance to add plot and complicate things.

Heh, I usually find that I like the PC's characters as much as they do and thus am very lothe to kill them off. I can't actually think of the last time I did it! The last time it was an inner party conflict between 2 drow fighters and a Red Wizard with a group of 4 apprentices. It ended with the drow turned into a toad and kept in a cage.
 

Xavim said:
Heh, I usually find that I like the PC's characters as much as they do and thus am very lothe to kill them off. I can't actually think of the last time I did it! The last time it was an inner party conflict between 2 drow fighters and a Red Wizard with a group of 4 apprentices. It ended with the drow turned into a toad and kept in a cage.

I agree, I like the characters as much as the players. But I have to be fair and if they die, they die. Therefore I allow ways that characters can be brought back that do not involve the boring raise dead type spells. Instead I usually have a solo, intense role playing session with that player about them trying to make a deal, or accept an offer of being brought back to life by a diety. It adds another level of complication to the game by giving that character a new responsibility. It also can add grreat role playing sessions as the newly alive character tries to explain how he is alive, since characters so rarely come back from the dead in my game. The other players are usually suspecious because I've actually killed off characters and had them replaced by evil look alikes (played by the same player) in the past.
 

For one or two sessions, start asking him to make 'Wisdom' or 'Idea' checks whenever he says his character is doing something stupid.

The tell him that his character either thinks that the action is unwise, or give him a better idea.

Like in the case of the potion: Say "you pause and think, "perhaps I should give this to the Bard".

"You raise the item to throw it at the guy, but then think 'that's a bad idea, it will cancel my spell' ".

Maybe after a couple of times, he'll get the hint.
 

In a game based on dice and people making decisions, of course things don't always go as expected. At least they don't for me. If they did...that's when it would get kinda boring.

I'd suggest handling the situation in-game. Grab a copy of Ghostwalk, or consider bringing back the Bard back as an Allip or Ghost (depending on party level, etc.). The Bard could be become a reoccuring villian that nevers seems to die, and sings a song of revenge or betrayal. The town might start feeling different about the 'heroes' after they bring a haunt into town.

That's just one idea...there are hundreds of others. Anyway, no one can make you feel down or disappointed without your permisson, so simply don't give permission. The Bard can live on in many different ways, much to the horror of your players. :)

I hope your games soars going forward. Keep smiling, and they will wonder why.
 

pass the tissues

Buttercup said:
So at today's session, one of the PCs died.

.......

Do the other DMs out there grieve a little when a PC dies?

Most players put a little bit of themselves into their PCs, and for those players it is always hard. And I always grieve whether I am playing or DMing. I've been known to fudge a roll here or there (my players put your fingers in your ears). I hate to kill PCs.

I will do it though. I will generally extend a helping DM hand to players who normally play well and, ahem, nearly persish because of a slightly bad decision or a series of bad rolls. Stupid, bad, repeated unexcusable play begs for death! The players MUST feel like their character can die. Without mortality the adreneline rush of risk does not materialize.

If there would have been a death, but because of the supernatural luck of the character, or perhaps one of the more powerful servents of their god was looking after them, and they managed to survive; well there is usually some penalty. Could be a quest (cleverly disguised), loss of an important item, loss of status (as bad as death to a proud character), reduction in ability score, and the list goes on...

Who is to say who was watching from some hidden alcove or corner when the bad guy ran down the stairs, and rushed over and managed to stabilize the poor and foolish bard just before she expired! And why did that person do so? for good or for ill? Perhaps even absconding with the near dead form, and requiring who knows what from the party or the bard herself? Ah, out of the ashes of certain death comes DM granduer!

Tell'em Barad gives his condolences at the funeral.
 

Chimera said:
For one or two sessions, start asking him to make 'Wisdom' or 'Idea' checks whenever he says his character is doing something stupid.

The tell him that his character either thinks that the action is unwise, or give him a better idea.

Like in the case of the potion: Say "you pause and think, "perhaps I should give this to the Bard".

"You raise the item to throw it at the guy, but then think 'that's a bad idea, it will cancel my spell' ".

Maybe after a couple of times, he'll get the hint.

I would relegate that kind of stuff to after game counselling. If the group is new to gaming perhaps, just in the beginning. But who am I to tell them what they think or what is wise! Leave that to in game PCs or NPCs. :rolleyes:

Of course just because I wouldn't do it in my game.... YMMV :)
 

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