Subraces - why so many?

tensen · Nov 8, 2006

MerricB said:
- Drow - inspired by Norse Mythology

Only inspired by the name... and then the actual name became a name for a gnome subrace. Can that be called irony?

tensen · Nov 8, 2006

Bardsandsages said:
Hey, just for the record (and a shameless plug) there are kobold sub-races, three to be precise, in The Koboldnomicon.

Adding my own plug to the list. Fell Beasts: Goblins includes sub-races for... you guessed it, goblins.

http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=295&products_id=5384&

Cam Banks · Nov 8, 2006

We're putting out a book called Races of Ansalon in the next month or so. Lots of subrace discussion in there!

These guys are part of the accepted "core:"
* Qualinesti (the 'high elves' of Ansalon)
* Silvanesti (the 'gray elves' of Ansalon)
* Kagonesti (the 'wild elves' of the southern continent, Ansalon)
* Dargonesti (aka Quoowahb among themselves; aquatic elves who can turn into dolphins)
* Dimernesti (aquatic elves who can turn into sea otters)
* Mahkwahb (evil aquatic elves who turn into sharks)
* Phaethons (flame-winged descendants of Kagonesti)

These guys are likely to end up in a Taladas sourcebook, but aren't part of the "core" Dragonlance material:
* Armachnesti (Silvanesti offshoot found on Taladas, the northern continent)
* Cha'asii (primitive jungle-dwelling elves from Taladas)
* Hulderfolk (reclusive 'wild elves' from Taladas)
* Tamirnesti (aka Hosk'i Imou Merkitsa; savage elves from Taladas)

And these guys more or less don't exist, or aren't part of the current accepted continuity:
* Lucanesti (I know virtually nothing about these elves except that they were introduced in 'Dark Queen of Krynn', a computer game?)
* Drow (the demoness Jialuthi from Krynn once posed as Lolth to convince many drow from different worlds to come to Krynn; she was killed and the drow were driven back to their own worlds. From 'Wild Elves')
* Elf of the Host (I only know the name. Apparently from some novel? 'Riverwind the Plainsman'? tell me if I'm wrong)

Cheers,
Cam

Dragonbait · Nov 8, 2006

VirgilCaine said:
Because wherever you have humans--Merfolk--you need Aquatic Elves to make them feel bad about not being so perfect.

lol.
On a similar note, don't forget that in Stormwracked, they made an aquatic human subrace, and another, weaker, version of an aquatic elf.

rounser said:
just lizardfolk (and their kings, perhaps sahuagin, tasloi, thanoi and kuo-toa too)

You're not trying to say that kuo-toa and sahuagin are in any way related to lizardfolk, are you? The tasloi and thanoi have already been pointed out, but our poor fishy brethren need to be defended too. And our poor reptilian brethren would be furious at being grouped with some fish, furry people, and walruses.
Xvart is a goblin subrace. Or, at least, it used to be.

Cam Banks said:
* Drow (the demoness Jialuthi from Krynn once posed as Lolth to convince many drow from different worlds to come to Krynn; she was killed and the drow were driven back to their own worlds. From 'Wild Elves')

Thank the maker they did not stay.. Of course there will be a player or two who want to play one on Krynn who's drow parents were not chased away..

What we really need are more subraces of Ducks. Quack quack

ruleslawyer · Nov 8, 2006

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Not quite.

There are no high elves on Middle Earth. Not a one. The last High Elf stepped on Middle Earth at the end of the First Age and left. They were apparently ridiculously powerful but it doesn't matter since they're not there.

Noldor: there were three named Noldor on Middle Earth at the end of the First Age: Galadriel, Gil-galad and Maglor (or maybe it was Maedhros). Of the three, Galadriel is a queen, Gil-galad is dead and the last is either insane or dead. Glorfindel may be a Noldor as well... Tolkien accidentally reincarnated him (you have to be a real Tolkien nerd to know about that). The vast majority of the rest of the Noldor went back to Valinor. The rest of the Noldor were slain in battle with Sauron during the early Second Age or interbred with the Sindar and vanished as a race and culture.

All other elves on Middle Earth are Teleri who haven't been to Valinor. (Thingol Greycloak was the exception, but he died during the First Age.) The Teleri are divided into cultural groups - several groups of "wild elves" (often called Nandor - they became uncivilized when their king died during the First Age and they refused to take another) and "grey" elves (named after Thingol Greycloak). Legolas is descended from both groups, but in game terms this means precisely nothing.

If you were to run a D20 Middle Earth game, all elven PCs would be Sindar. Period. No exceptions.

Elrond's ancestry is ... complicated. Both of his parents are half-elves. One was half-Noldor, one was half-Sindar. I think.

Not precisely correct, BTW.

1) The Noldor are all High Elves. "High Elf" is the term for an elf who actually lived in Valinor/Aman during the time before the First Age, when the Two Trees still existed. Thus, Noldor, Sindar, and Teleri all could be High Elves (although only Thingol fits this description for the Sindar).

2) At the end of the First Age, the remaining Noldor would have been Galadriel, Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor, and Cirdan the Shipwright, plus unspecified non-royal Noldor, including Glorfindel (who is certainly alive and kicking even through the Third Age, as his riding down the Ringwraiths in FotR shows).

3) The Teleri are the forerunners of the Sindarin and the Falathrim (the Sea-Elves), but many of them are High Elves as well, since many of them made it to Eldamar during the time of the Two Trees.

4) The Avari, or "unwilling," are another group of elves (the Wood-elves) who would make PC-type characters in an ME setting. They are NOT Sindar, having not been part of the people of Thingol. Later, some group of them is said to have dwelled with Thranduil (Legolas's father), but there were others in the eastern part of Middle-Earth.