Subtle Brilliance...

[Old One]

The more I read Grim Tales...the more I play with the interactions of feats, talent trees and skills...the more brilliant I am convinced this product is. I have "tested" a couple of mini-scenarios in several genres, including historic Arthurian, Musketeer France and even Napoleonic Europe.

I have a couple of quick questions for Ben, et al:

(1) On spell burn and temporary ability damage, what are your thoughts on magic items, feats or talents that either soak burn or delay the impact of burn for a short time period (a couple of minutes or an hour, with the trade-off of an increase of 1 burn point per die)?

(2) What would the implication be of converting spell burn ability damage to non-lethal hit point damage via either magic items, feats or talents. Does it totally "break" the system or is it a viable mid-point between regular, no risk spell casting and GT?

(3) Can Armor=DR work well with Armor=Damage Conversion or does it just lead to too much book-keeping?

Thanks in advance!

~ Old One

 

[Old One]

How 'bout some GT love for the geezer, here?

~ Old One

 

[Teflon Billy]

I just posted my review over here ---->Billy's GRIM TALES review

 

[Turanil]

Thanks for the review. I would have like to get more info on the book's contents actually; but as there is already plenty info available in threads, that's okay.

I can't wait to get my copy...

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

How 'bout some GT love for the geezer, here?

Well, I do work in Stealth Mode. So if you have a GT post icon, but don't have GRIM TALES in the subject line, it can take me a while to find it!

(1) On spell burn and temporary ability damage, what are your thoughts on magic items, feats or talents that either soak burn or delay the impact of burn for a short time period (a couple of minutes or an hour, with the trade-off of an increase of 1 burn point per die)?

Not a fan of the idea, in general. Folks just need to stop expecting their spellcasters to perform at D&D levels!

Take a look at the Spell Preparation feat. It might help.

I have been recently toying with the idea of feats or talents that allow spellcasters to quickly recover some of the lost points-- some sort of magical focus: sex, meditation, whatever.

But that is different from delaying the onset of the loss. Players are going to cast the majority of their important spells in combat-- the farther removed from combat they are, the less of an impact immediate ability score loss will have on them.

But just for reference, in this weekend's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen game I ran, guest Gentleman Aleister Crowley cast a Create Zombie spell on a pile of dead proto-Nazi's, knocking him down (after a full day of spellcasting, I should clarify) to a meagre 1 STR.

So he simply commanded one zombie to carry him around!

(2) What would the implication be of converting spell burn ability damage to non-lethal hit point damage via either magic items, feats or talents. Does it totally "break" the system or is it a viable mid-point between regular, no risk spell casting and GT?

I don't think it's viable, but then I haven't playtested it. The problem with hit points is that their loss is not tangibly felt until you cross a very discreet line (usually 0 hp). Operating at 1% of your hp has the same efficiency as 100% of your hit points.

By contrast, every point of lost ability score makes a difference.

(3) Can Armor=DR work well with Armor=Damage Conversion or does it just lead to too much book-keeping?

I think Armor as Damage Conversion is the superior method. (It prevents guys in plate mail from ignoring smaller weapons entirely.) Remember that against a source of non-lethal damage, even under the conversion method, Armor = DR.

Wulf

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If spell burn is anything like psionic ability burn, then converting it to nonlethal hit point damage will be amazingly broken.

 

[Old One]

Thanks...great points!

Well, I do work in Stealth Mode. So if you have a GT post icon, but don't have GRIM TALES in the subject line, it can take me a while to find it!

Not a fan of the idea, in general. Folks just need to stop expecting their spellcasters to perform at D&D levels!

Take a look at the Spell Preparation feat. It might help.

I have been recently toying with the idea of feats or talents that allow spellcasters to quickly recover some of the lost points-- some sort of magical focus: sex, meditation, whatever.

But that is different from delaying the onset of the loss. Players are going to cast the majority of their important spells in combat-- the farther removed from combat they are, the less of an impact immediate ability score loss will have on them.

But just for reference, in this weekend's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen game I ran, guest Gentleman Aleister Crowley cast a Create Zombie spell on a pile of dead proto-Nazi's, knocking him down (after a full day of spellcasting, I should clarify) to a meagre 1 STR.

So he simply commanded one zombie to carry him around!



I don't think it's viable, but then I haven't playtested it. The problem with hit points is that their loss is not tangibly felt until you cross a very discreet line (usually 0 hp). Operating at 1% of your hp has the same efficiency as 100% of your hit points.

By contrast, every point of lost ability score makes a difference.

I think Armor as Damage Conversion is the superior method. (It prevents guys in plate mail from ignoring smaller weapons entirely.) Remember that against a source of non-lethal damage, even under the conversion method, Armor = DR.

Wulf

Ben,

Good points all the way around...I have been leaning toward damage conversion, but wanted to throw UA a bone !

I will be running a Grim Tales Pseudo-Historical Arthurian game at the MD-VA-DC Game day (aka TerpCon) at University of Maryland on 9/25 and am trying to get my brain around a couple of concepts. We could pull in 75+ EN Worlders at this one!

Thanks again and I will remember to stick GT in the thread title for furhter Qs...

~ Old One

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Ben,

Good points all the way around...I have been leaning toward damage conversion, but wanted to throw UA a bone !

Well, hey, the Damage Conversion rules in Grim Tales ARE from UA. Probably quite nearly word for word, except for the funny subtitle (Variant: Fewer Dead Heroes).

Yes, one of the advantages of GT being delayed-- last minute addition from UA before it went off to print!


Wulf

 

[Old One]

Well, hey, the Damage Conversion rules in Grim Tales ARE from UA. Probably quite nearly word for word, except for the funny subtitle (Variant: Fewer Dead Heroes).

Yes, one of the advantages of GT being delayed-- last minute addition from UA before it went off to print!


Wulf

I actually meant the Armor as DR rules from UA !

We have been having an interesting discusssion over at the Rat's Nest on incorporating variant rules from UA/GT into campaigns...

~ Old One

 

[Old One]

Nice review, but...

I just posted my review over here ---->Billy's GRIM TALES review

TB -

Nice review but, c'mon...5/5? Wulf's head will be getting too big to get through the doorway !

~ Old One

PS - Can I vote for 6/5?