subtle weapons and sorcerors

[lightful]

As I read it, a dual implement sorceror with a subtle dagger in his off hand would get the bonus damage whenever he had combat advantage since he is "doing damage with the weapon" ... or am I mistaken and there's a different consensus on this ?

 

[Joshua Randall]

Subtle weapon:

Whenever you make a damage roll with this weapon against an enemy granting combat advantage to you, you gain an item bonus to the damage roll against that enemy. The item bonus equals this weapon’s enhancement bonus.

I don't think that "add the off-hand implement's enhancement bonus to damage rolls" (Dual Implement Spellcaster) counts as "make a damage roll with this weapon" (Subtle Weapon).

IMO.

 

[mneme]

Hmm. I concur--though the question then is what it means to make a damage roll with a weapon (as the damage roll is spell damage, not W). But technically, you're making a damage roll with your primary weapon, and the secondary weapon's enchancement bonus is only getting added in because of DIS.

So does a barbarrian add it in on his or her secondary weapon? He certainly -is- making a damage roll with both weapons; both sets of dice get added in!

 

[lightful]

For what it's worth - the character builder DOES allow it ...

Supposing that it isn't an option, what's a good (the best ?) offensive offhand for a dual implement spellcaster ?

 

[Joshua Randall]

Staff of Ruin is a classic.

 

[lightful]

Staff of Ruin IS classic, and mainhand for this character ... Neglected to mention that bit, it doesn't get the same double bonuses in the off hand...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

For what it's worth - the character builder DOES allow it ...

The offline version of the character builder allows a lot of crazy stuff; it's full of bugs.

For instance, the dwarf cleric PC has two sets of statistics for Lance of Faith - one using his implement, and one using his weapon. Except it's only an implement power, and he has NO feats, powers, class features, paragon paths or anything else that would allow for this.

I wouldn't be surprised if the official CB allows for this as well.

I know this forum seems to think otherwise, but IMO, you cannot gain a weapon's property unless you're making a weapon attack. So if you've got one of those daggers that inflicts ongoing damage on a crit, I wouldn't let it apply to a spell cast while holding the dagger. (Unless it's some kind of swordmage spell or you have a weapliment ability.)

 

[lightful]

I wouldn't be surprised if the official CB allows for this as well.

QUOTE]

It does ... but as I hope I made clear, I don't put TOO much faith in it

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I figured that.

The CB is a pet peeve of mine though, so I find it hard to resist pointing out its flaws in such situations.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Adveturers Vault Page 56:

"Weapon Properties

Many weapons have properties that provide a constant benefit. To gain the benefit of a weapon’s property, you must be wielding the weapon. Unless specified otherwise, a property affects only the weapon to which it’s attached. For example, a +2 cunning dagger, which bestows a –2 penalty to an enemy’s saving throws against your weapon powers, affects only powers that are delivered using that weapon.

You couldn’t hold the weapon in your off-hand and gain the benefit of the property on powers delivered using a main weapon."