Success - What is it?

[AllisterH]

I'm kind of curious.

What do people consider a success? In campaign settings, RPGs and such?

Is GURPS a success? It has never attained even Palladium numbers but has been around practically forever?

What about Dragonlance? DL is still putting out new novels every few months.

(It's kind of like a discussion we had on CBR about the Ghost Rider movie and whether or not it was a success)

 

[ggroy]

Instead of a binary yes/no situation, perhaps a sliding scale measuring the number of active games using a particular setting, system, etc ... would be a better indicator of "relative success". A failure could be defined as a setting, system, etc ... being actively used by nobody. In practice, the problem is that there is no easy way at getting such data directly.

In the rpg business, relative success could be defined differently, such as by the number of books sold per month (or year) for a particular setting, system, etc ... Failure could be defined as not selling enough books to cover the costs.

 

[Wombat]

Are we talking about economic success for a line or success in play here? These are two different questions.

In the first point, well, rpgs are rarely noted for their high profit margin. GURPS, D&D, White Wolf's WoD line, and a few others could be considered "successful" economically simply for surviving. Companies are notably tight-lipped about numbers.

As far as gameplay itself is concerned, this all comes down to what works well with your group. High sales numbers and profit have nothing to do with whether a specific game is going to be fun with your group.

The difference here is between McDonald's and a local diner. McDonald's is more successful on an economic level, yet the local diner might be much more popular with your specific family.

 

[AllisterH]

However you define the word "Success".

I mean, should Al-Qadim be considered a success? It only lasted 3 years, but it was only intended for 2?

Is something successful if it last for 5-6 years but then peters out? DDM for example?

Does a campaign setting have to be continually supported to be a success? Take Ravenloft for example...Open Grave (and Libris Mortis for that matter) I always considered the successors to the Van Richten guides.

CoC has never been a huge seller, yet it is practically an institution in RPG circles. Certainly more of a success than say Pendragon but not as much of a success as Palladium. So is it a failure or a success?

Really, what I'm asking is, "what is the standard for something to be a success? Does it have to be ETERNAL or can something be a success for only 1 Year?"

 

[ggroy]

Really, what I'm asking is, "what is the standard for something to be a success? Does it have to be ETERNAL or can something be a success for only 1 Year?"

Success can be defined in a time dependent manner.

Non-rpg examples of this are music bands over many time periods. A disco band may have been successful in the late 1970's, but is just barely scraping by since 1980-1981.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Success by quality
Success by popularity
Success by longevity

Anything scoring highly in these areas I would consider a success. By quality I would say "In what it is trying to achieve" - possibly the most subjective point.

Call of Cthulhu and D&D I would argue for example have a good innings on all three.

I imagine most people would go with "popularity" as the primary criterion, however in the overall scheme, it is longevity that counts most of all.

 

[ggroy]

I imagine most people would go with "popularity" as the primary criterion, however in the overall scheme, it is longevity that counts most of all.

The hare vs. the turtle?

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Perhaps more like Darwinism?

Whoever survives, gets to tell the story.

 

[ggroy]

Perhaps more like Darwinism?

Whoever survives, gets to tell the story.

In the non-rpg world, that probably explains why we hear all those famous debauchery stories of "survivors" like Ozzy Osbourne, Keith Richards, Motley Crue, etc ... while we hear almost nothing about the former rock stars which never "made it big".

 

[ExploderWizard]

Success is dependent on the desired goals. If company A decides that thier intended goal is to sell more copies than any other rpg ever and they sell 100,000 copies then they have failed.

The game compay A created might be a great game that is loved by nearly all who played it and considered a success by those fans. The goal of the fans was to get an enjoyable game and they got that.

Its all relative to goals & expectations.