Sudden Metamagic balanced?

Ashrem Bayle

Explorer
Now that everyone has had a little time to use it, how do you feel about the Sudden Metamagic feats from the Miniature's Handbook?

Is a 1st level Wizard casting a Maximized burning hands overpowered?
 

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Sorry, I havent gotten to use sudden metamagics yet.. I just have to laugh at this one though.. no offense to you, just struck me oddly ;)

1st level wizard, spends his feat on sudden maximize.. casts his d4 burning hands, uses his feat in order to make sure that d4 rolls a 4..lol.. crazyness.. of all the broken combos out there I certainly hope no one sees fault in a guy useing a limited use feat to do something he could do 25% of the time anyway! ;)
 

Ashrem Bayle said:
Now that everyone has had a little time to use it, how do you feel about the Sudden Metamagic feats from the Miniature's Handbook?

Is a 1st level Wizard casting a Maximized burning hands overpowered?

Oh it's balanced... along about the time the wizard (or sorc) gets excited enough to take the feat without reading closely and attempts to use it the second round of combat, and the GM gets to say "Nope, 1 time per day for sudden metamagicks.... heheheh", the wizard (or sorc) will agree that it's balanced.

That is, after they get through throwing things around anyway.
 


Ashrem Bayle said:
Now that everyone has had a little time to use it, how do you feel about the Sudden Metamagic feats from the Miniature's Handbook?

Is a 1st level Wizard casting a Maximized burning hands overpowered?


I have a 3rd level Warmage with a couple sudden metamagic feats. Silent and MAximize.



10 points with magic missile?

16 points with the lesser orb spells?

Once per day I do max damage, it certainly isn't overpowering yet.

Not when the barbarian is doing 1d12+6 every round w/o power attacking.
 

Balance is a problematic term. People tend to think that something that gives a huge advantage, but includes a huge disadvantage, is fine because there is a balance. In truth, things that work along this principle usually result in two problems: they are excessively strong in one regard and excessively weak in another.

These feats allow a character to toss in a metamagic effect 1/day without increasing the caster level. During that 1 casting, the spell is more powerful than it should be. This results in the character being able to do things that were not intended to be in the hands of a character yet. For instance, a suddenly maximized fireball cast by a 5th level caster (30 points of damage) will have a dramatic effect on that one battle ... an effect far stronger than was intended to be in the hands of characters of that level.

On the other hand, during the rest of the encounters that the PC faces, s/he will be at a disadvantage because s/he will effectively have 1 less feat than they are supposed to possess.

The end result? The DM has trouble balancing combats. The DM has to plan around that suddenly maximized fireball. A sudden maximized fireball can wipe out an entire encounter that was meant to be a challenge. If the DM anticipates the use of the fireball and makes the enemies tougher, he may end up with a TPK if the caster unexpectedly uses/wastes the suddenly empowered feat on something else earlier and doesn't have it when the DM thought that they would have it.

If the DM doesn't plan around the presence of the feat, his big encounters can be pretty boring. Few things ruin a good session as much as a BBEG that dies too easily.

Randomness in the game keeps it interesting. Too much randomness in the game makes it chaotic and wild. That results in more encounters that are too easy or too hard. Feats like this one are a big source of randomness in role playing.

Is the feat balanced? Perhaps. But I do not think it is good for the game. Things that grant too much power for a given character level, even in a limited situation, are bad for the game. Things that are focused into narrow pidgeon holes instead of being spread out over many encounters are also bad. These feats are bad for both of these reasons.
 

jgsugden said:
If the DM doesn't plan around the presence of the feat, his big encounters can be pretty boring. Few things ruin a good session as much as a BBEG that dies too easily.
.

I disagree. Don't plan around what the players can do. Let them have their fun, allow them to enjoy their powers. If the players use their abilities and win a fight easier then they should, they deserve it.
 


Crothian said:
I disagree. Don't plan around what the players can do. Let them have their fun, allow them to enjoy their powers. If the players use their abilities and win a fight easier then they should, they deserve it.
This isn't about 'deserve'. This is about fun. If the BBEG falls over too easily, it is BORING. Think of it in terms of a good story.

What if the Rebels took out the Death Star in Star Wars by shooting it as they came around the moon? Boring!

What if Frodo destroyed the One Ring by hitting it with a hammer in Bag End? Boring!

Important battles need to be a little more than one round or the players end up feeling cheated.
 

Do you have an example that isnt, 'insurmountable odds even with anything remotely similar to the discusssion'? ;)

Most metamagics are already weak enough anyway that they need some sort of a boost, I dont know if this is the way to go about it but at least it is an interesting way to go sometimes. Like I said though, I still havent gotten to use them, but they are at least worth a try to see how things go.

I remember a long time ago someone was doing a similar idea.. it wound up being you take the feat and 5-(level adjustment) was how many times you could use it in a day.. I wonder where that guy went and how it turned out for him.. I would really like to know, it was a very long time ago. Perhaps he'll have some input..hmm
 

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