Sudden Metamagic balanced?

[Crothian]

After thinking this over some more, it's balanced or unbalanced depending on style of play. For instance in heavy plot game where a Big Bad is not the true focus but figureing out what the mystery is, the feat would be okay. But in a heavy combat oriented game that is played similiar to a vidio game and the victory is gained with the destruction of the Bad Guy I could see DM's getting frustrated and thinking the feat unbalanced.

 

[pawsplay]

Maximized Fireball is to sorcerers would true strike Power Attacks with a two-hander are to Eldritch Knights. It's handy in a spot. The only potential issue I see is that it puts Quicken in the hands of Paladins, Hexblades, and low level Bards. Well, once a day. Why not?

Btw, a 30 point Fireball is nothing for a CR 5 villain. A Fighter with Con 12 and average hit points has 35 hit points. That means that if he is wearing no energy protection whatsoever and fails his saving throw, he is still standing. Some epic battle killer you got there.

 

[James McMurray]

True, but most mooks are one or two levels lower than the party wizard, while their boss is one or two levels higher. That fireball may not drop the BBEG, but it'll have a pretty good chance of dropping the majority of the guy's meat shields. And once a BBEG's meat shields drop, he'll usually be fleeing or dying pretty soon.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Perhaps you haven't seen a truly power-gamed fighter? They can dish out just as much damage, but do it all day long.

Which doesn't matter at all if there's only one fight a day - the wizard can afford to blow his wad in a single go, because he knows he'll be recharged soon.

...probabilities...

Since when is a DM balancing between 1 and 2 fireballs finishing a fight?

That's not (to my mind) an epic battle.

Furthermore a 1/day feat and a spell slot are more or less interchangeable. Remember the 'extra spell slot' feat? I believe that people considered it to be weak...

So there's no difference between a silent fireball and a normal one when the enemy cleric is casting Silence at you?

Of course there is. However if that difference is expressed as a consumable item (like a 1/day feat), then the difference is minimal. The same player could have a potion of dispel magic instead. Or make his save...

Granted, the ones that don't increase damage are nowhere near as difficult to account for, and can even be good as they give the DM a chance to let a player showcase an ability. They are still far from "no different than what coul's attainable".

Buh?

Sudden metamagic is a minor benefit from an investment. It's nice, but by no means broken. Certainly not to the same level as some of the stuff that is and always will be core.

 

[James McMurray]

Which doesn't matter at all if there's only one fight a day - the wizard can afford to blow his wad in a single go, because he knows he'll be recharged soon.

How does being able to dish out the same amount of damage not matter when there's only one fight per day? The second half of my statement may not matter, but it certainly doesn't invalidate the first.

Since when is a DM balancing between 1 and 2 fireballs finishing a fight?

That's not (to my mind) an epic battle.

Whenever he wants to mke a fight that will last longer than one round? It may not make an epic fight if it ends in to rounds, but generally that seond fireball won't be sent in, because the mooks will be in melee with the wizard's friends. Guys that would have died to a single spell now take a spel and one or two hits to drop. Seems a bit closer to an exciting fight to me.

Furthermore a 1/day feat and a spell slot are more or less interchangeable. Remember the 'extra spell slot' feat? I believe that people considered it to be weak...

If the extra spell slot feat gave you the ability to duplicate effects generally only doable by someone 6 levels higher than you without the need to expend a higher level spell slot, your statement might actually mean something. But a free metamagic feat 1/day is much better than a free spell slot.

Of course there is. However if that difference is expressed as a consumable item (like a 1/day feat), then the difference is minimal. The same player could have a potion of dispel magic instead. Or make his save...

A potion of dispel magic??? And you don't get a save when someone casts silence next to you, not on you. With a twenty foot radius, you've just ruined that spellcaster's day.

Buh?

Sorry I mangled my quote. It should hve said "what's attainable". When you are 7th level, a silent 4th level spell (for instance a dimension door to escape a pin) is not attainable. With the sudden metamagic feat, it is attainable. Thus your statement doesn't hold, as the feats are obviously different from what would normally be attainable by that character.

Sudden metamagic is a minor benefit from an investment. It's nice, but by no means broken. Certainly not to the same level as some of the stuff that is and always will be core.

Sudden metamagic is by no means a minor benefit. Ask around, you'll find plenty of people who will tell you that the incantatrix is broken not because of the much-touted Improved Metamagic, but because of the Instant Metamagic.