Sudden Metamagic from Complete Arcane question

[NewJeffCT]

Does the feat Sudden Maximize (for example) seems to not require a caster to use a higher level spell slot to cast "suddenly" - is this correct?

So, evil caster can cast a sudden maximized Meteor Swarm and have it do 48 points of bludgeoning damage and 144 points of fire damage, and it would cost him "only" that level 9 slot?

Granted, you can only do that once per day... but, that is pretty powerful.

Is this correct?

 

[Starbuck_II]

Does the feat Sudden Maximize (for example) seems to not require a caster to use a higher level spell slot to cast "suddenly" - is this correct?

So, evil caster can cast a sudden maximized Meteor Swarm and have it do 48 points of bludgeoning damage and 144 points of fire damage, and it would cost him "only" that level 9 slot?

Granted, you can only do that once per day... but, that is pretty powerful.

Is this correct?

Yep. No Spell slot restriction. The restricion of 1/day if the big one because the WotC made D&D designed for around 4/encounters per day (of equal CR, meaning less encounters/day should have higher CR). So having a big spell for only 1 is not overpowered.

Plus, you could have just got a rod of Metamagic Maximize instead of spending a feat slot (easy to afford by 17th level when get 9th level spells). The rod can be used 3/day.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

The restricion of 1/day if the big one because the WotC made D&D designed for around 4/encounters per day (of equal CR, meaning less encounters/day should have higher CR). So having a big spell for only 1 is not overpowered.

Of course, 1/day abilities are slightly more useful in the hands of an NPC opponent to the PCs, since he's likely only going to see play the one time.

 

[irdeggman]

In general the "sudden" feats do not force you to use a higher level spell slot, as pointed out the trade off is the x/day limitation.

So spending a feat on something that can only be used 1/day and is only useful in certain circumstances is pretty expensive.

 

[Kelek72]

Just my opinion, but even at just once per day, these feats are very powerful - depending on the type of campaign you play. Most of my campaigns don't have real deadly encounters all that often ( I can't believe anyone would live to be twenty-two in a world with MORE deadly encounters). A once-a-day "super-spell" is a great advantage in a campaign like this. My players also prefer to play a little more casually and less "power-gamer-like" so anything that is self contained, like a single feat, as opposed to combining feats, skills, items, spells, racial powers, etc... for an extreme effect is much more likely to be utilized by them.

Also, NPC's are a perfect fit for these powers as someone else already stated, especially when they are designed for one big encounter. If you fight the same NPC more than once in a day or for a prolonged encounter, these feats could be one of his weaknesses which every good NPC needs!

 

[gamecat]

I'm a fan of the sudden metamagic feats - not the most powerful, but for a prepared caster they're nice to have up your sleeve as a just-in-case and they scale better than a rod that is capped at a certain spell level.

 

[kinem]

Sudden Maximize and Sudden Empower seem overpowered, especially at mid to high levels (about 5-15).

Consider a 10th level NPC wizard vs. a typical 10th level party. He casts a Sudden Maximized, Empowered fireball for an average of 77 damage (Reflex half). That could likely take out a couple of PCs, and leave the rest in bad shape, except for the rogue unless he's unlucky. The remaining ones are not the best equipped to take out an enemy spellcaster, especially given the long range of the spell. So he is likely to survive the round and get off another spell, which could be an Empowered fireball. How is this not a TPK?

OTOH, Sudden Silent is pretty much a requirement if you're a spellcaster. No one has the right to walk around, pretending to be a spellcaster, without some way of dealing with Silence.

 

[Dandu]

Sudden Maximize and Sudden Empower seem overpowered, especially at mid to high levels (about 5-15).

At higher levels, you will have Metamagic Rods which do the same thing as the feat more times per day. The Sudden feats arguably become weaker as you level up.

 

[kinem]

Metamagic rods are not as much of a problem - it's easy to justify an NPC not having one, but nearly impossible to justify him not taking Sudden Maximize if he could have.