D&D (2024) Suggestion: higher Standardarray instead of the additional +2/+1

[Willie the Duck]

Fundamentally, yes, it is a backwards-compatibility thing. If they eliminated it and still wanted people with PB/Array to be able to start with +3 mods, they would have to rebuild the tables, include the PB cost for the 16 in stats (something where I honestly think any given number/cost they could provide would anger at least half the base), and so on. Moving the +2/+1 to backgrounds (and then making them floating as desired) does the most with the least impact. Having no bonuses at all would be less confusing to newcomers (although having them tied to background isn't actually an more confusing than having them tied to race, so what they've done is confusion-neutral). Honestly, I would be in favor of* getting rid of the 4D6b3 system altogether, doing 3d6 (arrange to taste) and rebalance what the scores get you** to make that not significantly different. All that mostly unused space between 3 and 13 for stats you don't immediately try never to use seems like a waste to me, and there is elegance in a bell-curve distribution. That fight, however, seems to have been lost in '77 (or at least whenever the basic-classic line officially ended).
*along with even more extensive modifications to attributes, such as making them matter for a lot fewer things.
**such that a 12 or 13 would be a perfectly fine primary attribute.

If you do roll Attributes, then why do you need the +2/+1? I mean you lost already all hopes of balance

The game also has random starting gold and roll HP as you level as options (and dice rolled every adventure). All forms of balance exist only in the aggregate.

 

[Horwath]

I've been playing for a long time and have tried any number of methods for generating stats, ranging from random rolls through to point buy and all manner of weird and wonderful variants in between. And in all that time I've never found a method that I've been particularly happy with for more than a single campaign.

Ultimately, I've concluded that there just isn't a single right way to do it. So, IMO, best not to present a default - just give the three options (roll, buy, array) and let people choose.

point buy/array; balanced
rolls; play at your own peril

 

[Amrûnril]

Stats are a weird shibboleth at this point, TBH. If WotC had any backbone, they'd trim them down to just the bonuses, and assign those based on class. Everything else is a sort of collective self-deception the community plays on itself.

Stats can be a major axis for character customization. A fighter with high wisdom and low charisma will play very differently than one with low wisdom and high charisma in terms of out of combat abilities and in terms of what effects they're able to resist. If anything, I'd like to see increased flexibility in this regard. Imagine if a rogue could have intelligence as their highest score, or a cleric could have charisma as their highest without it being a huge blow to combat effectiveness.

 

[John R Davis]

It does seem utterly pointless now
Just have 3-5 default arrays to pick from and bosh you are done

 

[darjr]

I think it’s absolutely backwards compatible, more so than the background bonuses. He side bar would only need to say “if you are using bonus granted from an earlier char gen source do not use these arrays or pout buy “

 

[Maxperson]

What I found strange is that they moved the +2/+1 to the Backgrounds instead of eliminating it altogether and instead increase the Standardarray/Points instead.

Rolling is still a default method. They can't do what you propose without gimping rolling.

 

[gorice]

Stats can be a major axis for character customization. A fighter with high wisdom and low charisma will play very differently than one with low wisdom and high charisma in terms of out of combat abilities and in terms of what effects they're able to resist. If anything, I'd like to see increased flexibility in this regard. Imagine if a rogue could have intelligence as their highest score, or a cleric could have charisma as their highest without it being a huge blow to combat effectiveness.

I think the sort of customisation you're looking for could probably be achieved with class-based arrays (my fighter is good at fighting!) plus a floating bonus or non-combat ability (is my fighter wise, charming, or learned?). As for a rogue having intelligence as their highest score... If being good at climbing walls and picking pockets is a feature of 'intelligence', what does 'intelligence' actually mean? And if it means 'whatever we want', who cares whether your rogue has any?

 

[Staffan]

Stats are a weird shibboleth at this point, TBH. If WotC had any backbone, they'd trim them down to just the bonuses, and assign those based on class. Everything else is a sort of collective self-deception the community plays on itself.

The Troubleshooters works fine without ability scores and just having skills. But I think it might make the D&D audience explode.

 

[MoonSong]

Rolling is still a default method. They can't do what you propose without gimping rolling.

Then split the difference:
If you roll, roll 4d6, keep 3 six times. Arrange to taste and then add +2/+1 to two stats.

If you use point buy, the point buy accounts for higher stats, goes up to 16 and has a few extra points to get there.

If you use standard array, the array already accounts for it with two 16s

 

[Maxperson]

Then split the difference:
If you roll, roll 4d6, keep 3 six times. Arrange to taste and then add +2/+1 to two stats.

If you use point buy, the point buy accounts for higher stats, goes up to 16 and has a few extra points to get there.

If you use standard array, the array already accounts for it with two 16s

That would work, but if you're keeping the bonus for rolled stats, what's the point of rolling the bonuses into the point buy/arrays? Isn't a "same difference" situation?