D&D 4E Suggestions for building 4e adventures

[Connorsrpg]

Ah, gotcha now. True if the first encountered are weak

But can still send in many more over the encounter than before and stretch the PC's resources. I love that. And love the idea of hordes of little guys showing up to protect their lair. Just seems like more fun that 1 orc being a match for a whole group. Reminds me of 1e where you just did it
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[Mathew_Freeman]

What I mean is that it sounds like too many monsters for one encounter, in the sense that it's 4-5 monsters for one encounter; the above example had more.

Also, if you're staggering the wave of monsters (3, several rounds later 2 more, several rounds later 2 more), then I think that's a MUCH weaker encounter. If the party stomps the first three before the first two show up, then they can take the second two on.

It would be much easier than a situation where all 7 monsters were in the same immediate area. I can understand arriving a round or two behind and having them all there, but i you split them up too much, the first monsters on ground zero are going to be corpses by the time reinforcements get there.

Well, yes. That rewards good play by the PCs. It also feels a lot more realistic than just continually encountering large groups of monsters all hanging out in big, single rooms.

The trick is to plan it as a slightly tougher-than-normal encounter, but spread it out. Plus, when the first start of reinforcements start arriving you'll find the players breaking out encounter powers - which means if the second set arrive the battle becomes that bit more tense!

 

[vladbat]

THis doesn't need to be overpowered or overly difficult to me. The first ones in the encounter could be minions. If the party is blowing their encounter powers on them they aren't playing smart at all.
Also remember the entire thing could be planned at the "xp budget" of an encounter.
I think this enoucnter is much more managable than 7 monsters in the room, especially when you consider how important mobility is in 4e. 3 mobs that I could drop fast and get out of the way are much easier to deal with by themselves than if they are backed up by 2 ranged guys and 2 big tank types. I'd take them broken up any day.
Plus if the party is playing really smart maybe they send in the rogue who spots the guard. The party then rounds the corner and drops this guy if the rogue doesn't think he can BS the guy hard enough. This keeps him from alerting the two in the room. Talk about managing a battlefield.

 

[Rechan]

I think this enoucnter is much more managable than 7 monsters in the room, especially when you consider how important mobility is in 4e. 3 mobs that I could drop fast and get out of the way are much easier to deal with by themselves than if they are backed up by 2 ranged guys and 2 big tank types. I'd take them broken up any day.

That's my point. What player wouldn't prefer them all isolated? They're way easier to tackle alone, than as a group. Which makes them sub-par as an encounter challenge. The party will walk over them.

 

[Rechan]

Well, yes. That rewards good play by the PCs.

How? It's not a reward when the DM intentionally engineers it via mapping. That's a give-away. As a DM and a player, I want HARD encounters. Cakewalks are boring.

It also doesn't make sense why one of the guards doesn't run around the immediate area alerting everyone of the intrusion, rather than the three minions just allowing themselves to get mowed down in hopes that others hear.

 

[Spinachcat]

That's my point. What player wouldn't prefer them all isolated? They're way easier to tackle alone, than as a group. Which makes them sub-par as an encounter challenge. The party will walk over them.

Sounds like a good way to space out a higher than base encounter like 750 XP worth of monsters for a 1st level party. The spacing then acts as a balancer of sorts.

 

[Kordeth]

What I mean is that it sounds like too many monsters for one encounter, in the sense that it's 4-5 monsters for one encounter; the above example had more.

I count one initial guard, two more he pulls in from the adjacent room, "some reinforcements," and two trolls. That sounds like 5-8 monsters in total--and as vladbat pointed out, if a couple of those guards are minions, that's a perfectly-balanced encounter assuming everything's equivalent level.

Also, if you're staggering the wave of monsters (3, several rounds later 2 more, several rounds later 2 more), then I think that's a MUCH weaker encounter. If the party stomps the first three before the first two show up, then they can take the second two on.

It's not an all or nothing proposition: you needn't say either all monsters are in the room when the PCs kick in the door or the new monsters only "spawn in" when the first wave is all killed. It sounds from the description like the players get a round or two for each "wave" before the next batch notices and comes to investigate. If they're really efficient and drop each group with SWAT-like proficiency, good for them. They have, through good tactics or lucky dice, made this particular encounter a bit easier. If they waste time or roll poorly, the fight will be tougher, but still balanced for their level.

It would be much easier than a situation where all 7 monsters were in the same immediate area. I can understand arriving a round or two behind and having them all there, but ou split them up too much, the first monsters on ground zero are going to be corpses by the time reinforcements get there.

Which is why the DM should be keeping an eye on the fight and bringing in new foes at moments that are dramatically appropriate and will keep the energy of the fight up rather than just letting the PCs always clear each room before moving on.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

How? It's not a reward when the DM intentionally engineers it via mapping. That's a give-away. As a DM and a player, I want HARD encounters. Cakewalks are boring.

It also doesn't make sense why one of the guards doesn't run around the immediate area alerting everyone of the intrusion, rather than the three minions just allowing themselves to get mowed down in hopes that others hear.

If you want hard encounters then we can make each set of monsters tougher in our example. So the first two guards aren't minions. Maybe they're the elite guard, and the second and third waves are minions who come in to reinforce them. I'm not seeing your argument on this point, as this is an example that can be changed as you want.

And, as a DM, if you want the first guard to immediately run round and warn other people, that's fine. But most guards don't assume that the person coming towards them is just going to kill them instantly - they try and contain a problem first and then spread the alarm second.

If every guard raised the alarm the second they saw 4 people coming down a corridor towards them, every castle in the land would be in a more or less continuous state of alarm! I'm exaggerating, of course, but what does and doesn't make sense can vary hugely from table to table.

The point is, 4e adventure design encourages flowing, multiple-room, multiple-enemy encounters over large areas, rather than the traditional one-room, small-group encounters we've been used to.

 

[jelmore]

If you want hard encounters then we can make each set of monsters tougher in our example. So the first two guards aren't minions. Maybe they're the elite guard, and the second and third waves are minions who come in to reinforce them. I'm not seeing your argument on this point, as this is an example that can be changed as you want.

In the excerpt about customizing monsters, raising or lowering a monster by a level is apparently as simple as raising or lowering its attack bonus, defenses, and AC by one, and adding or subtracting one "hit die" worth of HP based on its role. (The article notes that you shouldn't do more than a five-level change in this manner; any more than that and you should probably look for another monster to use.)

So if a combat is too easy for the PCs, you can easily make reinforcements tougher with about 30 seconds' worth of math.

 

[Jack99]

Sounds like a good way to space out a higher than base encounter like 750 XP worth of monsters for a 1st level party. The spacing then acts as a balancer of sorts.

My players had only a little trouble with a 750 xp encounter the other night, because it was split up in a two-part wave (from Return of the Burning Plague).